Interview with Steve Kee

Steve Kee is a long time communications pro who recently “retired". I didn't believe him.

Watch: https://youtu.be/_PH9mY4xbTc

Unedited transcript

Jim Allan: This is connections and my connection this week is Steve Kee.  Welcome to my basement studio.

Steve Kee: Thank you for having me.

Jim Allan:  So, a  quick overview of your career. CKO Radio, Toronto Stock Exchange. Insurance Bureau of Canada. We’ll talk about some of these later. And,you're certainly my best dressed Guest so far so you're you're already winning. I always say to people I've been in Self-employed as a video producer for 30 years. 10 years before that. I worked at CKO radio as a Student and I'm pretty sure I witnessed the beginning of your full-time career. Is that fair to say?

Steve Kee: Yeah, I mean you were at CKO in 81 I arrived in the fall of 82 and I started doing work in the sports Department, right? So I would cover the Jays and the Leaf games Eventually, they moved me into the newsroom and I sort of became the jock of all trades. I reported I did some anchoring. I I I edited tape by push buttons I did just CKO was the greatest training ground.

Jim Allan: What was CKO radio for people watching this who've never heard of it?

Steve Kee: It was Canada's first all-news radio network. It was this wonderful experiment We had stations across the country we were doing the 24 hours a day news and information programming Maybe we were a little bit before our time. I was just thinking that and and You know highly successful all talk radio stations today Like 680 news really took the model that CKO Started with and I've really just supersized it and do it probably so much better But at that time CKO was this wonderful place to start and they would give a at that time a 19 year old kid A chance to to do something and be on the air

Jim Allan: So, you're right out of school or were you there during school?

Steve Kee: I did both. I started as an intern That grew into a part-time job and then a full-time job So I finished up my schooling at Humber College in the radio program in 83. I was working Full-time and going to school full-time, so I would go to school then go to work So they there were some really long days, but I wanted to secure a job They always talk about you should go to small communities But I was learning it was a master class and we didn't have that term in those days but it was a master class and learning about the news business and Broadcasting from some of the some of the absolute greats in the business

Jim Allan: We're gonna jump around a bit today because but it's all you know, it's important to me to tell everyone how we're connected and you have to go back that far to figure it out that said I feel like I know you better than I should because of social media. You're really really active on social media in my humble opinion. I think this is gonna be a therapy session for me today because we're polar opposites. I'm a behind-the-camera guy That that I've done hundreds of interviews but never not so much in not been on camera that much You are on camera. You're you're you're the guy taking selfies. You're the guy doing podcasts… a travel podcast. Kind of work related podcasts. You kindly guest on other people's podcasts. But you're you're also very open and honest so I know exactly like you're on vacation I know if anything you you're too honest to I heard a podcast you did somebody else's podcast and you were talking about your first marriage.

Steve Kee: Oh, yeah very open. going wow

Jim Allan: Any fallback from any any of your openness over the years and then you regret anything?

Steve Lee: Sometimes with the family, I don't know if the kids are particularly thrilled with everything I talk about and there have been some friends that Maybe take exception to what I do but you know, I This whole information world is what I've been living for 40 years It's what I always wanted to do social media. Yeah, I always say a decade ago when my work was largely in traditional media and Social media was almost in its infancy within a very short period of time The pendulum swung and Social media was just as important So I was talking in my my regular job having to talk with reporters and and Influencers on social media as much as traditional media.

Jim Allan: Do you have a particular philosophy or you just say I'm an open book I'll just say anything or Cuz I'm I'm again kind of the opposite It was my anniversary a couple days ago and I and I'm torn whether or not to let my wife Put a picture out of it because I'm so private…

Steve Kee: You know It's like and and and I think it you have every right to be as private as you want And you know, I think I think there's some some situations with with over sharing of information People always know what I'm doing or where I am and where I stand and interesting while I'm an open book I try to be very fair. I try to look at both both sides And I say in today's world you're either on the the left or you're on the right and there's no shades of gray in between And I try to bring a bit of that perspective and I also try to be a very positive I think there's just too much of social media where there are trolls it's a cesspool of of hate and It that bothers me and I'm not going to participate that way But I'll try to take the high road I'll try to I'll I'll get back to that because that's an interesting part of social media and you've you face that professionally I I know because it's part of a part of a gig

Jim Allan: We started at the beginning your career and let's go to kind of the end of your career so it's like December 2020 it's a it's a and and I probably follow you on Twitter and LinkedIn and Then mid-december right before Christmas of a pandemic you announce you're retiring and I had and I'm totally honest here I just I almost laughed out loud. I I I didn't believe it because you're the guy who is you love Your vacations and you're you go to the Caribbean a couple times a year, right? Cuz I know so much about you You're a Caribbean a couple times a year if you probably more if you could and there you are on the beach or pool Tweeting about the insurance business, which is what your your last full-time a big gig was and And yet here you are retiring on on LinkedIn you you announced your retirement on LinkedIn And I just didn't believe what

Steve Kee: I was I was very quick to say I was retiring from full-time work. I never gave the impression that I was just going to go away and Live on a farm somewhere and raise animals, although I would love to do that I had been thinking about this for about a year Spoke with the company decided the what was best and —

Jim Allan: So, you weren't fired or anything like that?.

Steve Kee: No, it was all these things go through your mind. Oh, no, it's somebody's too young to retire or retire. Well but I'm I'm now 59 years old and Not I really wanted to do something different, right? I two things I Loved my job. I've loved all my jobs.

Jim Allan: I thought you did

Steve Kee: But I hated the commute right and and I brought that on myself from moving from my Originally lived in Mississauga and then after my first marriage broke up we were down in in Toronto I was right down by the Roger Center and Then when I had a chance my father died 10 11 years ago and there was some money and I put that together And we bought the house in Brooklyn which is northeast of Toronto wonderful little it's a village in the town of Whitby and it was a it was a great investment, but it also meant an investment in time and An hour and a half to two hour commute each way to get to work. That was the part. I did not like so the pandemic forced us home it forced me to reevaluate what I wanted to do and Clearly I didn't want to be Running that rat race again. So you're you're you're the classic Scenario your home doing zoom calls all day probably right? I'm not all day. I will you know, I'll walk the dog I'll cook dinner. I'll do little things, but you're leading up to that leading leading up to that. Yeah, it was zoom calls Prior to the to stepping away from my BC there were Probably six or seven zoom calls a day and instead of getting up and commuting both ways I would be up and at my desk at seven in the morning and Be there till seven at night. So Zoom and and and that the the virtual world meant you were probably putting in more hours to the company so I I was I was giving that company 60 to 70 hours a week and I was mentally and Physically Destroyed I put on a lot of weight I I Just I couldn't think straight anymore. I was probably a little cranky at times So like you might not have noticed that but I just didn't want to do it So the retirement Opened the door it opened the door for me to to get well again

Jim Allan: So that's kind of my concept of my I think you've seen one or two of my shows and that's kind of a concept here It's sort of a almost like a storytelling gimmick for me. It's like big decision Why you know, why'd you make it and then what happens after that? So

Steve Kee: So since December, I mean it's almost again I'm watching I'm waiting for the Second shoe to drop in sometime in January. Oh, I'm now Steve Kee communications and and since then you've I think gradually kind of Will climb back into it now you're saying what are you full-time or no, no, no, no, no, no, we're close to that. So in order to I Chuckle because you know in my suit on the inside of my suit It's it's Godfather quotes so like I often quote movies and I quote a lot of different things and I'm Godfather 3 and Michael Corleone said just when I thought there was out they pulled me back in and that's a bit Retirement so you're never really completely away, right? that said I I Decided prior to the end of December that I was going to become far more Connected with the local community because I lived in this community. I love this community. I wanted to help I I was appointed into one of the Steering committees by the town of Whitby. I Joined a police community safety board from the Durham police. I've done some speaking at Durham College and And I joined the Whitby Chamber of Commerce Maybe the best move I ever made because all of a sudden when people thought I had time on my hands They came to me Can you do this? Can you do that if I want to write a speech write a speech write a news release write a news release You know, the first thing I did for the Whitby Chamber was largely government relations work I was I was preparing budget submissions for the provincial and federal budgets and then writing Summations after the budget It tied into what I I understood communications. I understood the issues I I I do a lot of walk-arounds in downtown Brooklyn and try to help businesses what they need from the town so I'm I'm I'm this resource and And I kind of like it people say you're kind of the mayor of Brooklyn Well, yeah, I guess I walk around with a bit of that swagger because you're dressed like the man I'm not asking for anything from these companies They're coming to me if they need help and that's the greatest gift of all and so every client that I have And there's not a lot like Making it sound like you know, I've completely gone into but no I haven't so maybe Maybe I'm working 15 to 20 hours a week Right, that's And enabled me to to diet exercise plan myself and you got in shape along the way. I've lost 60 pounds I'm I'm since December or yeah. Yeah, and and so I'm I'm healthy got a dog He's ten months old now You have a puppy you got to walk them a lot. You got to train them So there's a lot of things I do to to try to be You know a good person and try to be helpful and use what I know and what I'm good at To help businesses that have really struggled during the pandemic and so that's that's a lot of my focus So you want to stay busy but stay productive in a positive way. I I'm not looking to rule the world I'm not looking to be in a corner office anywhere. I don't want to climb any more ladders My days of climbing ladders are over

Jim Allan: Let's talk about that ladder for sex so CKO Were you there at the end of CKO Radio?

Steve Kee: No, I uh, I left a CKO in 1988 Opportunity came up to go work for the Toronto Stock Exchange Initially to do some market reports And if you remember back to the days the TSX or TSE people in those days would phone in a market report Twice or three times a day So I was brought in to do that and then work on their media relations practice This was after the 87 market crash and there were people that won't even know what that is now But that was pretty significant financial event and a lot of big corporate Closures of companies so The TSX was going through some very challenging times. I thought well, this is an interesting transition into to Corporate communication you're kind of going from the literal jump is journalism And it's not it's a communication and it's not for everybody and it was tough at the beginning Yeah, because I was used to being the reporter chasing the story. Some people won't do it Yeah, and and I understand why most people need a gig at a certain but it took me a year to really find my my footing I had a Wonderful boss at the time who took me aside knew I was struggling at the beginning because I just wasn't Really getting this and she said to me what you need to do is kind of proclaim your rarity And I sat and I let that sit in I thought okay What does that really mean to me and and and the definition to that was what do you do better than anybody else? That you can make that the cornerstone of what your job is going to be and that was networking that was Talking to people that was being a storyteller on base like people on Bay Street. Exactly. So you're calling Investing the investing community. You're trying to develop relationships. I was doing that and the business media Yeah, and and so a lot of the the the business media Reporters that started and may may have worked the business beat and I got to know we all grew up together so these same people went into Managerial jobs at the newspapers radio stations TV stations and so on and so forth so that They would pick up my phone calls or read my emails. So I became valuable for who I knew It's like you're only as valuable as your contact list and and who you network with and that is so true Because that's even today how I get any kind of work or job. It's based on who I know I'm not cold calling anybody. I don't have to write and that's a that then and that's a The luxury of age and wisdom, right?

Jim Allan: It's a lot of years of investing in relationships.

Steve Kee: Absolutely

Jim Allan: When you're at the TSE Toronto Stock Exchange, um So at what point did you start showing up on camera sometimes like doing interviews? What was that like because that's that's exactly where I am now. I'm 40 years. I'm 35 years behind you So but appearing on camera. What was that like when you first started doing

Steve Kee: it was It was a natural transition Um Because I had started doing the market reports because I had done a lot of reporting in at cko I thought well, we'll we'll work on something to To let us tell our voice The key point there is in the 90s the trading floor at the stock exchange closed We closed it. I was part of that project and it went all electronic trading. So we lost that visual That had been the trading floor We then created something at the time called stock marketplace, which was now the TSE broadcast or TSX broadcast center And what we did is we brought media outlets into the exchange Now you know nasdaq, you know does it and and and and all of these different places in the us But this was really the first and it gave us that chance So I had cbc cp 24 ctv a news channel they were all in our building Broadcasting from there and they needed content So they say steve, can you come on and do a market wrap or reports or whatever you want? I went, okay, that's great. Then we started doing market opening ceremonies where We we just put the feed out there and there was a visual event at 9 30 every morning They were getting that so all of these things added to build the profile for the exchange and that was uh That was such a gift now that that was only one part of the job. The other part of it was The issues management the crisis communications all the different Major events that happened Uh over the over the years that I had to be involved with everything from Y2k You know, that's that's 20 some odd years in the past What happened around the markets at 9 11? That was pretty tragic and then the the rise and fall of companies like nortel, you know And that that aren't even around today or briex briex was another one that that uh was a major black eye on the uh On the the the industry

Jim Allan: So, guys jumping out of helicopters and stuff.

Steve Kee: Yeah exactly and and so I was I was so fortunate To be Around These events and to be around the people so you went in there

Jim Allan: You didn't know you obviously you didn't have well, maybe not obviously But you didn't have a business degree or a commerce degree No, so you learned everything just on the job talking to people

Steve Kee: It was the greatest training ground But one of the best things that happened to me was a boss of mine robert patillo uh who was I always called him the dark knight of communications. Um He had worked for the cbc had worked for some other major companies very very smart intelligent guy came into the exchange around 2001 and he put his faith in me And he said, you know, let's let's get you as much training as possible. He sent me to worton Down in philadelphia. I did a lot of work down there and I was down there like I'm saying i'm a a reasonably dumb jock who grew up in malton, ontario Uh who coasted by and went into the radio broadcasting program sports and sports and all of a sudden now i'm with these wonderful international students at worton and learning just the Fundamentals of business and leadership terminology and it it helped me and then I did things like take the canadian securities course, which was a A tough thing so I I had to learn about the markets

Jim Allan: It's like being a sportscaster and mispronouncing a name You can't be a business reporter and make a dumb mistake.

Steve Kee: I suppose Yeah, so is and even that translated into in in later years I was teaching a course in communicating financial information at humber college Because I I knew it and I understood it and and that was That was great to be able to do but You know, i'm not Classically trained there are mbas and there are really smart people out there I just bring something different. I can take the complex things And simplify them down and that's been my entire career trying to Dumb it down and and make it palatable for the average person to understand I always said if you if I couldn't explain something that my mother or my grandmother could understand Then I wasn't doing the right job.

Jim Allan: So 20 years at the toronto stock exchange I think there was a bit of a gap. I think that's probably when I connected to you on LinkedIn so then i'm kind of following you i'm fine. Well, yeah, but okay

Steve Kee: So what happened is that I had been at the exchange for for the 20 years For a job, I thought I would stay six months to a year Uh, then you know you get married you have kids you're trying to to settle down You didn't want to leave all of a sudden sunlight Financial made me an offer. I couldn't refuse it was Phenomenal to be that communications person avp of communications and that was a staff of 60 people and And uh, there were some local and some connection to the us and internationally I went to sunlight and I was there for about two years. I absolutely hated it And and not because I hated sunlight. Uh, I hated it because When I was at the exchange people think the exchange is a huge huge conglomerate. The exchange was a 500 person organization Sunlight was 30 000 employees It was just a matrix of of trying to get information out there So it wasn't the right fit for me internal communications. It was external internal. It was it was everything and uh, and so I left there and That was the first foray into trying to to work on my own. That's when I probably linked up with you Yeah, and it And it didn't go so well because at that time that was 2010

Jim Allan: So you're starting from scratch, right?

Steve Kee: So I was really starting with no plan or no idea, right? And it was within a year Uh or so Then I ended up getting the job at ibc Which was a small organization churn spirit. Yeah, 300 people And I remember interviewing for the job and they said well, what are you going to bring to the table? and I said well i'll I'll come like i'm shot out of a cannon And you won't regret it and that was a bit of a cocky swagger but that tends to be me from time to time and you know the People I talked to the woman that hired me said you delivered everything you said who would and not if not more and i'm, you know forever grateful for them to give me the last decade of my My full-time work, right? Because I did some Phenomenal things At ibc I was so fortunate and you think insurance you think it's not the most sexy uh business in the world We help people on a daily basis and it was Challenging I was in fort mcmurray after the fires. I was in Godridge after a tornado. I was in barry after a tornado flooding in in in alberta calgary in in 2013. I spent the entire summer commuting back and forth I saw people when they needed us most and we did our best to help them now.

Jim Allan: We didn't actually meet I actually did work for the insurance bureau Uh through an agency that you used to hire gabor gabor. Yes uh, so I was paying attention to to you because um So you did a I think kind of an infomercial early early days. So I I did some uh Field producing for that so I did uh street some of the street interviews for that And it wasn't the only time that I did things before and after for the insurance bureau. So indirectly I I worked for you But um what I always found interesting. There's a couple points I want to get to It wasn't it wasn't always easy because I remember one gig in particular You're on the street and you're trying to find people to say positive things about the insurance industry and it ain't easy Uh, and and that so a couple things Uh, I mean you learned on the job and they at the tse tsx and they sent you on courses and stuff But I was always impressed that Here's a guy that wasn't in the insurance industry And suddenly you're out in front you push out in front and you are answering questions about the insurance business which Is complicated, uh Like an expert you're the expert you're pushed out there right away. How did you learn all that stuff? So quickly or are you just a really good actor? um

Steve Kee: Well, I mean no, no, no, no you learn on the job. It's a great question because You you I'm a sponge I take in a lot. I process it I bring it down to the level that I know I understand there are brilliant Policy and legal minds at ibc that can go into every detail into a policy It was up to me to simplify it because the ultimate thing is to get you as a person who needs insurance To talk to your broker About what your specific needs are so you're not paying for things you don't need And that's a lot of the bottom line which brings me back to social media because Part of your job you were very active As not not just yourself but as the you know, ibc Communications guy On twitter or whatever and it's the wild wild west, right? It's like people are taking Potshots at you the industry and everything and you have you have to have you take all the slings and arrows For whatever that comes up and it's it's it's rough stuff I don't know and I don't know if I could I can't even do it.

Jim Allan:  I can't even really have a personal account Uh at all, I have such a thing thin skin, but how do you How do you stand up there? In in that social we were talking about social media before and it's But how do you take all those things and arrows when you're the representative of a company and not just lose it on somebody Or did you ever lose it?

Steve Kee: Oh, there were a few times. I probably lost it.

Jim Allan: Did you go back and delete those tweets?

Steve Kee: No, no I was I but I I gave a I would have a discussion to a certain point So I would have a lot of people who did not like what I said or did not like what the industry said primarily the the personal injury lawyers Of course, they're working for people who have been wronged or feel they've been wronged by insurance companies Uh, there are victims rights groups that felt that that that I was You know, I was this Guy who just didn't listen to any of their concerns None of these things were further from the truth. I I would actually read And listen to it and I might adjust my wording from time to time But how am I going to go? I'm not going to go on a personal attack on somebody I'll attack what you say, but they might attack you and they have yeah It's not that you do anything wrong. I'm just saying I'm just pointing out this I got attacked a week or so ago by a bunch of people around wearing masks and vaccines, I mean It doesn't matter what side of the fence you're on if you're going to stick your neck out You can expect to be shot at and you have to take the good with the bad I get way more good than I get bad. So I would say that 90% of any feedback I ever get is truly positive

Jim Allan: But was that did that contribute to maybe the stress that you were feeling when you were like your last year or two there?

Steve Kee: No, no because i'm I'm an old athlete at heart and I would um When I played sports as a kid I was never the most talented person I was a scrapper. I would I would do everything in my power to to to win for the team So part of me liked the challenge the battle the fight uh But I always tried to fight fair and tried to fight clean.

Jim Allan: What what advice could you give? I mean, I know you you I think you meant you say you mentor like students or anyone that might approach it Someone young that's they've lived their whole life in this So maybe they're used to it because there's tick tock and snapchat and all this stuff um

Steve Kee: Do you know that my my niece my niece she's 17 years old. She has 125,000 tick tock followers So you think i'm influential on social media. Oh, I could talk to chloe. She's the influential one uh, but That said I'm always worried about the social footprint And that there are too many young people today that don't realize that These things can be used Against you at some point if you're looking for jobs or you're trying to do things and not everybody is going to be an Influencer and you don't have to take off parts of your clothing to get likes You can say good things. You can be positive and people will do it. It's it's uh So when I when I talk to students I say one be careful of what you post on social media and two build your network Because I can say things at 59 years of age And get away with things that a 19 year old can't

Jim Allan: you've got a couple podcasts going One was it what's it called the next step or okay, so there's two and a travel one the next phase next phase Which is whatever you're in now. It

Steve Kee: It started as almost Me just yammering on about something and then it sort of changed And it was more interviews and storytelling and similar to what you're doing It's and i've interviewed some fantastic people i've interviewed politicians. I've interviewed uh authors um You know, I I spoke recently with john da. I don't know if you remember john da from global tv And he uh, he had written the book So I said, you know, listen, I'd love to speak with you on this podcast because we go back to the days of the exchange I read his book Fantastic interesting read wonderful interview. It was it was just something to do that. I talked to students It's almost like i'm doing their first networking thing on my podcast And it's it's great to see these kids go on to get their internships and to get their jobs and i'm trying to help them the other podcast I do is something we call key to travel and and that is It is really travel advice and information. I do that with my wife And cynthia is um she's The brains behind a lot of that Because she is the one person that can remember each individual detail. I say she's got this eidetic memory for travel She'll know where we've been what we did what was important what had to change

Jim Allan: Did you ever see yourself when you're visiting some of these places? I could I could live here six months a year Yeah, yeah, like which places are they where will I find you in five? Ten years?

Steve Kee: One of my favorite places, uh is samana in the dominican republic. It's uh, It's a smaller it's it's not you know Punta canna or porta plata but samana is a small place and I go to a small island There which is maybe the best resort i've ever stayed in in my life. I'm also uh,

Jim Allan: Does it have wi-fi?

Steve Kee: Yes, it does. It's kind of have wi-fi. It does have wi-fi Although though my my my phone company for 10 bucks a day I can get all the access I want so that's fine I also like jamaica. I Like negril I love the beaches there and we have friends down there now And this is the luxury of my travel is I get to to meet people and to do a lot of that that great stuff and originally I liked cuba, although i'm i'm They've had a lot of challenges and it'll be a while before I go back but My wife and I were married in cuba in 2012. We were married down in veradero so that it it's a special place to us uh, but it uh You know, it's a struggling country and there's a lot of things so Ideally, I kind of want that tom cruise cocktail thing to just kind of go down to a beach somewhere run a beach bar And I'd be happy Who knows? Who knows could happen it by a bar and the crew Yeah, and and and whether or not like we we've also been talking about buying a place in new brunswick Uh and and going down going down there and living you sell your house here The value is you take it down to new brunswick. It's Wow, but now the prices are starting to go up in atlantic canada because other people have got that thought already

Jim Allan: So you're out you're out in the Whitby. The Brooklyn area. If people want to get in touch with you, how do we do it?

Steve Kee: A couple of ways. I have a website steve key communications, uh dot ca uh you know, I My sign I have my signs on the side of my jeep. I've Got a sign behind me on my zoom calls people know how to reach me if you if you google steve key uh, it's You would really have trouble not to figure out a way to find it

Jim Allan: Steve, thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

Steve Kee: Thank you so much. I I really enjoyed this.