Interview with Anna Emmanouil

Anna Emmanouil talks about her move to the real estate industry, after years in television and live events.

Watch: https://youtu.be/0PSU_E2XMnM

Unedited transcript

Jim Allan: This is Connections, and my connection today is Anna Emmanouil, who's a real estate agent nowadays, so welcome to my basement studio.

Anna Emmanouil: It's awesome. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Jim Allan: You're exactly the kind of person I want to talk to, as I was telling you via email. Someone who has reinvented themselves mid-career. The last time we met, I was doing street interviews on Bloor Street.

Anna Emmanouil: Yes, I remember that.

Jim Allan: I was working for a financial company. You do remember it.

Anna Emmanouil I do. I do.

Jim Allan: You graciously agreed to answer some questions, which was great because, and as a pet peeve of mine, you're in a demographic that tends to avoid the camera, and or me in particular, which I've noticed for a few years, but you were great, and so you just, but you also, there was several different categories, and you just stayed there and answered. So thank you for that.

Anna Emmanouil: You’re welcome.

Jim Allan: That was nine years ago. And it’s one of the reasons why I thought you'd be interesting for this, because you're not afraid of the camera.

Anna Emmanouil: I’m not afraid of the camera.

Jim Allan: Is that part of what makes you, I mean, you're a salesperson now, really? Or is that, is a certain fearlessness?

Anna Emmanouil: Yeah, it definitely is. I remember when you stopped me, and I'm like, a camera? Why, yes. I'm not, I'm a sucker for being on camera. I guess I'm a ham. I was a very performer-oriented child, but I would say that I got a lot shyer. And then when I went to university, I did a broadcast journalism degree. And the thing that I wanted to do most is be on camera. I wanted to be a reporter or a host or something like that. And I remember wearing my little jaunty red jacket, like my actual, I wore an actual suit jacket to school because I wanted to be on camera. And I would say to everybody, if you don't want to do the camera part, I'll do it for you, I'll do it. No problem. So I was always jumping on camera. And then when I went into television and live events, none of that was me on camera. It was me producing, which I actually really loved as well. So being able to get back on the other side of the camera, actually as a Realtor and being able to offer guidance or advisory, whether it's on camera, whether it's in front of people, I'm really, really comfortable and I actually really love that. So I think I'm digging back into that part of my personality. And like I said, behind camera for so many years that I forgot that I can be back in front and I'm really comfortable and I like it.

Jim Allan: From my point of view, I think of you as working kind of in television and the event industry. So, I mean, it's been hard hit, right? That industry. So what have you heard? You're connected to a lot of the same people I am, but what have you heard? Because it's been obviously a tough 18 months, two years.

Anna Emmanouil: Yeah, COVID really, I mean, I still remember being it's the typical where were you when it all sort of shut down. I was in my basement where I was working on my business plan for real estate and I had just really cemented my full time plan. But I'll backtrack. I started speaking to a lot of friends who were former colleagues of mine and every single person was in freak out mode. If I could say it gently, everybody was just falling over, probably in a state of shock and just frozen for a while. But when I realized even within a few weeks of that initial freak out, all the clients that were talking to these colleagues of mine were saying, well, we can't not communicate with our employees. We can't not tell them what's happening. How do we turn this virtual? How do we make this all happen online in the virtual space? And it was just the perfect timing of how virtual meetings and events could really take off. And then all these colleagues who suddenly said, well, geez, I've never done a live event before online. I've only done it live. OK, I guess I'll learn. They just all learned. And it became kind of amazing. I noticed a lot of people just, I would say, transformed into a whole different career. And I watched it from the sidelines. I watched that happen. And I was I just really couldn't believe the timing, right? For myself, where my transformation was taking place, but also for my colleagues, where they had to go. And a lot of them have survived and thrived. I'm not sure that they're enjoying it as much. I think the live stuff was really fun. It's not quite the same.

Jim Allan: Well, to me, a lot of a lot of virtual, the best virtual events were really became TV shows. The problem with that is you're also competing with Zoom, which is kind of free. And so it was tricky. And there was a lot of, you know, there's a lot of kind of BS online when you're kind of just doing half baked internet research where people are talking about the virtual events in the way you thought of virtual 20 years ago, where you go to a convention center, but you're an avatar and you're working. So people say they're selling that and doing it and enjoying it. I don't believe them necessarily. At the beginning of all that, you said you were actually, so the pandemic didn't cause you to go into real estate. You were planning it already?

Anna Emmanouil: It was timing. I mean, I definitely was, I had got my real estate license in 2017 with a plan to just follow a passion. I love looking at homes. I'm obsessed with real estate value. I grew up in a household where all we talked about was real estate. My uncle was a real estate agent. Friends of family, everyone talked about how did anybody make money in, you know, our community was through real estate because nobody understood the stock market. And so real estate was kind of the Toronto way of making money because Toronto was such an infant that any property anywhere in the city, if you bought it in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, you made money. So it was kind of a common refrain. And besides the fact that it was a financial plus for people, it was also, that's where you live. That's where you make memories. That's where you raise your children. That's where you have the big parties that you remember when you're an adult. Oh, I remember being a kid in that basement of that house. That's really what drove me to do it. And I actually did it because I thought, I'm gonna keep my full-time job in production and I'm gonna do real estate on the side for friends and family when they need me so that I can help them and guide them and be a source of education while they're going through that process. So they don't have to go outside and find another agent. They can use me.

Jim Allan: But you have to study to do that.

Anna Emmanouil: Oh, it's intense.

Jim Allan: Can you take a course?

Anna Emmanouil: Oh, I mean, it's a lot. Like there's a lot of people who do it full-time and then meaning go take the courses full-time and a lot of people who are working full-time and they offer a lot of options to do it virtually. But yes, some of the courses were intense and I just hadn't been a student for a long time. I forgot how to be a student. So I took a few years to do my courses over the course of a year and a half. I'm raising babies at home. I'm a wife, I'm a mother. I'm working full-time flat out in production 50, 60 hour weeks all the time online. And I only look back now and think what an incredibly productive person I was during that time. Cause I was so driven. It didn't hurt that my husband was very supportive and he took care of the kids and cooked and took care of things while I was studying.

Jim Allan: That's husbands do.

Anna Emmanouil: They are, they are. He saw that passion that I had for it and he said, I support your dreams. And if you really wanna do this, I'm behind you. So keep your full-time job, do real estate. Let's figure it out as you go. But I was driven to consider an alternative lifestyle, which was, what if I become a real estate agent full-time? I just didn't think I would ever do it because the risks are so great. I mean, in Ontario, there's probably 60,000 licensed real estate agents. And I mean, I know we have a big population, but 60,000 people you're competing against is a lot of competition.

Jim Allan: So you're in Mississauga, your business.

Anna Emmanouil: My brokerage is in Mississauga, but I'm focused on West Toronto and Toronto Beach because I was born and raised in the city. I'm familiar with East York. I'm familiar with Vaughan. I'm familiar with downtown and condos and all that.

Jim Allan: One of my mean questions here was gonna be, so you're in Mississauga, population about 750,000, but there's about 250,000 real estate agents. How do you break through? It's a dime a dozen.

Anna Emmanouil: It's not a joke, it's true. There are a lot. And there are a lot of real estate agents who are doing it. It's a means to an end. They have a family, they need to feed them and some agents are gonna be great. And a lot of agents give our profession a very bad name. I'm constantly, I feel like it's a personal desire to raise the professional standards of our profession. And that actually goes for any profession I've ever been in. I always want to lead with integrity and with truth and with good vibes and really concentrate on my client. So Mississauga, Toronto, that whole area, it's literally littered with realtors. Roadkill. It's a roadkill. And it's brutal and it is hard. And there's a lot of people who will do anything to make a sale. A transaction focused realtors who are like, I just need to close this deal. Do you need to buy this house? I don't care if you like it, buy it. I've met a few of those, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot. And I'm shocked every time I hear that. I have had more than my share of clients, be referred to me because somebody said to them, your realtor is really pressuring you. Why are you working with that person? You should work with my realtor. Her name is Anna, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I get these people who are shell shocked. They're just like, what's going on? Why are people so pressurized? Like, what is this pressure cooker? And I'm like, why are they making you feel like that? It's awful. So there's a lot of myths in real estate too.

Jim Allan: So like I've heard that only 5% of actual real estate agents may make a living,

Anna Emmanouil: I mean. Yeah, you're not wrong. The numbers are actually startling. I think there is out of 20, so right now the numbers are between 56,000 and 60,000 realtors in Ontario who are licensed. And I think that the stats are that less than 10,000 of those realtors, I think less than 10,000 do 80% of the business, something like that. So on your hand, you can basically count the top five and there is a short list after that. So I'd say 35 to 40,000 realtors do one to two deals a year, which if you really actually add that up, it's barely $20,000, maybe $20,000, depending on what they're buying or selling.

Jim Allan: Depending on what the commission is.

Anna Emmanouil: Yeah, depending on the commission. And also realtors are known to give rebates, which is that you help a client, then you give them some money from your commission as a thank you for using you. And in a lot of cases, it's a really common practice, so you end up giving a lot of your commission away. So you don't get all the commission, it goes to the brokerage or a lot of it. All of it goes to the brokerage and then they pay you. Because they're supporting you through the lien times, basically, and you're using their facilities and their name and everything, okay. There is a misconception that realtors take all the commission. Obviously somebody has to pay for the big office and all the staff and all the desks and all the computers and everything. So it's, you know, it's, and they offer a lot, depends on the brokerage. Not everybody is, you know, very thoughtful and helpful for their agents. I happen to be at a brokerage that does provide everything. And so I pay them to provide those things to me. And so I pay them their commission, I guess you would say, and then I take some. And then I also give back to my clients almost every time. And I also make it a point to give to a charity that works within Rural LePage, which is about women and shelter, especially in abusive situations. And I give some of my commission every time to that. So there's built-in costs all through the system. So some realtors who do two to three deals a year, they're really barely squeaking by and that's really hard.

Jim Allan: So how do you get new clients?

Anna Emmanouil: That is the, if you- It's the holy grail for everybody. I was gonna say it's the holy grail. The Pandora's box, that's not the right word. All it is, is actually talking to people. If I talk to people, they come on board as my client. I don't talk to people, they choose whoever the realtor is that's closest to them who has been peppering them with stuff. So it is one of those leaps. And this is where when the pandemic hit, why the leap for me was, I felt like triple harder, because I was suddenly not seeing anyone, not talking to people. I had to go out of my way and I still have to go out of my way to say, hey, Jim, haven't talked to you in a long time, what's up?

Jim Allan: What surprised you about the real estate business? How much of it is prospecting and client development. Do you cold call?

Anna Emmanouil: Yeah, I literally have to talk to, I just have to call everybody that I know and just, hey, what's up? And remind them, this is what I do. It is the hardest thing and I will speak from my heart. It surprised me. I did not know it would be, first of all, that hard to just pick up the phone and call people who you haven't seen in a long time and randomly say hello to them. That's hard because you feel a little bit like it's disingenuous, right? It is, it feels disingenuous. But on the other hand, if you're driven by the desire to actually be a help for people, then all you're doing is telling people, hey, I'm here to help. And if you need me, you let me know. That's not disingenuous. So there is that line where I always feel like I'm nervous about it coming across a certain way, but then I really do mean it from my heart that I'm around if you need me. I don't need your business today, but will you consider me, right?

Jim Allan: No, somebody in your old business told me that once. It's getting across that barrier. It's like, you're just letting people know you exist. And, you're there to help. I'm here to help you in case you ever need something. And that's sort of- You find that too, that must happen from, I mean- I don't do the cold calling as much, but certainly when I was starting out, no one knows you exist. Of course they're not gonna hire you. But back then I would send a letter who does that anymore, that I would follow it up with a phone call and hope to get an interview. So if I'm getting X number of interviews a week, I was at least doing something and making progress, right? And that's like a full, can be a full-time job just doing that.

Anna Emmanouil: That's a commitment, right? To do that and stick through it and do it and not- But fear is a good motivator too, because if you got to do it, like you're not happy doing what you were doing and this is what's required. It's like that, you know, when you're reinventing yourself. It is a big motivator. I quit a very high paying job where I was in charge of a lot of people and it was a great company that did good work. I, you know, we obviously had challenges on a daily basis, but I cannot say that they treated me poorly. They treated me very well. And I was probably the second highest paid person at that company. And I literally walked away from it. I said, I'm resigning, thank you, goodbye. I'm now going to do something different. And I just put a line in the sand and I said, if I don't do this, if I'm stuck to the golden shackles, as they say, I will never leave. What's stopping me from leaving? And then literally the pandemic hit like next month. So there was a little voice in the back of your head. You just weren't 100% fulfilled in that job. I've been very lucky in my life to know what I wanted to do for a living. So when I was in university, in high school and university and whatnot, I knew I would be in television, production, events, producing something. And probably about six, seven years ago, the voice in my head came in and said, are you sure about this producing thing? Because you also really love real estate. Is that maybe your second passion? Should you maybe follow that? And like I said, I took the courses almost on a passionate whim. I just do them, do well, and just be prepared to help people, but probably won't make it a real career. I remember taking friends for lunch and saying, oh yeah, I'm just doing real estate for fun. I'm just doing it for myself, my family and my friends. I'm keeping my job. Little did I know that that balance just somehow, I don't know, tipped in favor of real estate. And so I, with again, support of having a partner in life who was making enough money to support us and I didn't have to, I did have to work, but what I mean is I could take the risk for a short time. And we did this thing where we said, okay, we have a six month window, January to June. If by June, you have literally not done one deal, then we'll reconsider. So I kept kicking the ball a little bit down and saying, okay, a few more months. And then suddenly like, 2020 was crazy. Everyone I knew needed a house, needed to sell, needed to buy everything and they were using me.

Jim Allan: This was because of the pandemic or a coincidence?

Anna Emmanouil: Coincidence, well, in a few of the cases, relationships were ending. I don't, it was not pandemic based. They were just ending and they needed somewhere to live and the pandemic just happened to hit it around the same time. So those people found me because I was out there. I was available. I was making it my business to tell people right at the beginning that I was doing this. That was not pandemic based, but I think the busyness into the late summer, fall, early part of this year was more pandemic. People moving to get more settled.

Jim Allan: Did it help to be a woman in that situation? I'm assuming you're helping single women friends, no?

Anna Emmanouil: Some male, but mostly women. Yeah, mostly women. And I have learned more than I ever expected about separation and divorce and how the banks treat women in those situations and how you have to be financially prepared with your realtor in order to move into something and how competitive you have to be in the housing market to find your dream home. I am reading about just employment for women is down during this pandemic. That makes sense, of course. I remember when I was quitting and deciding to do this full time is that I had to pep talk myself on a daily basis to not give in to what was expected of me, which is to stay in this big, great job, make my money and just shut up, right? So wanting more, risking wanting more, asking for more saying, I could do better than this for myself was a daily, if not hourly conversation because I had zero reason to leave a great job and only the future of which was murky at best, I have a real estate license, that's about it. I have no prospects, no one knows I do this, I haven't been doing it long enough, how will I ever make it?

Jim Allan: Did it feel like you were jumping off a cliff?

Anna Emmanouil: Oh, absolutely. I jumped off the cliff literally hourly in my head. I'm like, okay, I'm doing this. And I was really proud of myself. The biggest learning for me was just how proud of myself I was because I did something that most people don't do. Most people will not take that risk. And again, I acknowledge the support network around me that said, do it, just do it, don't worry. But I know a lot of people personally in my life and friends and whatnot, who are zero going to take a risk like I did. When they're passionate about something, but they're not gonna do it. I was really proud of myself because I did not have a cushion. My cushion was make it work. My cushion was do it, not, oh, well, if I can't, I'll just do this other thing on the side. No, I just had to make it work. And I struggle with that constantly because every day in a realtor's life is what's your next job? Who's your next client? How are you gonna make money? Where's the money coming from? And it's also a lumpy salary, right? Similar to freelance producing where I was doing that as well. So, you work for a stretch and then you get paid at the end and you kind of hope it makes up for all the hours you spent. So that is knowing that that's what I was facing. I had to be so brave and I'm not a risk taker, but I really did find my footing in that space. And I kind of felt very encouraging of others to do the same. Like as soon as that happened with me, I looked around and I said, why aren't you just taking the same risk? But I realized that all of us have different reasons and different times when a risk is okay.

Jim Allan: So, you're happy in real estate.

Anna Emmanouil: I love it.

Jim Allan: You're happy with your choice.

Anna Emmanouil: Yeah, I love it so much. I do wish that I could still dabble a little bit in production, but I think it might be more along the lines of doing TV segments or blogs or podcasts. But again, with me being in the real estate seat, not behind the camera. So yeah, I do love it.

Jim Allan: How do we get in touch with you?

Anna Emmanouil: Pretty easy. I do have a website and it's my name, AnnaEmmanouil.com. I have the craziest last name. So I think you're gonna have to write it for people. And I pride myself on just being a guide through real estate, trying to help people navigate their life stage. No pressure for me. And that's my favourite thing ever. I don't feel pressure to sell anything. I feel pressure to make a client feel happy. That's the pressure I put on myself.

Jim Allan: Anna, thank you for your honesty and for coming.

Anna Emmanouil: Thank you so much, Jim. It was such a pleasure. No one's asked me these questions. So I appreciate it very much. Thanks a lot.

Jim Allan: Great, thank you.