Interview with Glenn Forbes
Glenn Forbes has enjoyed a long career as a ProducerDirector of corporate communications.
He’s also created several independent films, and has carved out a reputation as a screenwriter. We talk at length about his journey writing scripts, entering film festivals and winning awards.
WATCH the full interview it here:
Unedited Transcript:
Jim Allan: Glenn Forbes is here with me today. Welcome, Glenn.
Glenn Forbes: Hey, Jim.
Jim Allan: How are you doing? Thanks for the long Trip. Glenn is a writer director producer
Mainly of corporate stuff. Is that fair to say?
Glenn Forbes: I would say that's the That's how you're biggest part of my background. Yeah is in the corporate world
Jim Allan: So sort of sort of like me. In fact, you were my client at Sears, Canada.
Glenn Forbes: Mm-hmm.
Jim Allan: When did it was a long time ago? When when did you leave Sears?
Glenn Forbes: I left Sears in 96
Jim Allan: So which is exactly 30 years ago
Glenn Forbes: Exactly 30 years ago.
Jim Allan: So why did you leave Sears as I remember it and we were on zoom call in like March and I mentioned You didn't want it. They wanted you to go to management or something and you didn't want to be a man you wanted to be a video guy
Glenn Forbes: Well, yeah I was I was manager there for about six years, right.
I was around 1990 91 ish that I became manager and did it for six years and and
After that length of time, it was just like, you know, I wanted to get back to what I love that
I'm a production guy. I like the creativity of the writing I just wanted to step away from from the hassles that at the time the hassles that I saw which were management and
An opportunity came up for me to move to Canadian Tire to just be a producer and
To have higher budgets and to be able to work more in and around the city
Because at Sears we were completely in-house we were an isolated unit we had up to ten people working there at the time andAnd the chance to go out and work it for a new group a new company and work out in the city with bigger budgets. And you know freelance camera guys and post-production houses around the city. And a higher salary to not manage was too good to turn down
Jim Allan: Yeah, I didn't realize you actually there can enter full-time your fault for four years.
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, okay
Jim Allan:Yeah, I thought maybe you just went freelance or something like that.
Glenn Forbes: No freelance came after Canadian Tire around 2000.
I went freelance, you know
Jim Allan: What makes you an interesting interview subject to me is your efforts Over 30 years as a screenwriter. So like movies and short films and things like that. So so while we're similar in many way you've taken chances that I simply haven't taken so
For better or for worse and that I thought it'd be fun to talk about some of that stuf today probably.Correct me if I'm wrong the first independent film you wrote and directed was a film called “Amplifier”. Is that right or did you do something before that?
Glenn Forbes: That is correct. Yeah, that was a self-funded short film science fiction short film that we made in the Shot it in 98. Finished it in 99. So I was right near the end of my tenure with with the Canadian Tire that we did that
Jim Allan:So one of the reasons I point out amplifier so 90 sorry 98.
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, we shot it in 98
Jim Allan: So again 28 years ago is that I went to the premiere of that I remember it and I think that's the lack we may not have spoken because you were busy doing premiere things, but
But that's the last time I actually saw you so I remember that quite clearly and I also remember
Forgive me. I don't remember the plot necessarily.
Glenn Forbes: Sure,
Jim Allan: but I remember what I was thinking on the way out of that
It's like wow, he did it because it's doing anything as an accomplishment
but but also that you paid for the whole thing I go like because it as you said yourself self-funded so Why did you do that at the time?
Glenn Forbes: I Kind of was in the mindset at the time that you know if I wanted to segue my career Away from the corporate world and into the film world as a writer-director
producer I Kind of had to Prove it people weren't gonna give me any money to write a script for them or give me any money to make a film. For them or to hire me as a director unless I could prove that I could do i. So I said this is an investment in my future stepping stone in my career I'm gonna bite the bullet. I'll spend some serious money and try and do something that to me looked like a 20 minute slice out of a real Hollywood feature film was the goal. So we shot II 35 millimeter motion picture film we hired actors. We had multiple locations special effects digital effects at the time, you know before AI or before things like that
Just to try and really make it a little sliver of of what could be a feature film to you know
To warm people up to the idea that hey, maybe this guy can write a little maybe he can direct a little.
Jim Allan: what was the reaction to it just out of curiosity at the time like did it match your expectations?I mean you're probably hoping for Not a lot, but maybe a lot. It's not buying a lottery ticket a lot of these things.
Glenn Forbes: Well, yeah The reaction was was was strong in one sense and that we played a lot of film festival I played about 20 or 25 film festivals around the world in various places and won several awards was nominated for several awards because of it Um story wise I think it was a little on the dark. You know side of of of it was a story about technology future technology and how it can corrupt Humanity and I think it might have been a little artistically dark in its approach Which maybe some people were rubbed the wrong way by it, but you know, it turned out well enough and it got Notices all around the world at very festivals and and the most important thing it gave me Was that it allowed me to then go to the OMDC which is the at the time was called the Ontario media development corporation and seek them out for money to do my next short film and we won that so we went from a budget of about $25,000 for amplifier all of a sudden we had. Geez, I think we had in terms of gifts in kind and cash money and everything.
We had almost $100,000 to do my second short film about three years later
Jim Allan: so when you say 25,000 that's28 years ago, of course and you're getting and you gifts and kind is kind of a key phrase there, right? You're getting free Stuff free labor maybe free like you're just playing in favors and you're doing whatever you can.
Glenn Forbes: Yeah. Yeah to get it done Yeah, basically working in the corporate world. I knew a ton of people I knew editors. I knew cameramen. I knew crew people and people suddenly got excited. They knew me. They knew what I was like as a director as a as a producer
And when I said I'm trying this new thing, do you want to come along for the right?
I really can't afford to pay you very much
But it could be something that you're never gonna get to do in your regular job
And luckily had a lot of people come along for the ride
Jim Allan: So I remember Todd Morgan was in in it. He probably did some graphics for you
Glenn Forbes: He did some a special effects work and he played a thug in the in amplifier.
Jim Allan: Yeah. But I remember that so it's funny what you're what you choose to remember
years later. So through the years as you mentioned you but you produce films written scripts entered film festivals so tell me And I see we're connected on LinkedIn, too so I see your I do see your steady diet of Films through the years or you're announced things and things like that
So what's the film festival like to someone that doesn't know anything about it like me?
Glenn Forbes: Well, I really I guess it depends on the film festival, you know after spending so much money on On making the fil I I didn't have a ton of money to actually go to the film festivals anymore. But I managed to get it down. I did a road trip to California and I managed to go to Palm Springs International and the Hollywood Film Festival mark where my film was playing a week apart from each other So I got to see those two festivals up close
Jim Allan: But you have to do you have to pay you have to pay an entry fee to get into a film festival
Glenn Forbes: Yes.
Jim Allan: so it's all kind of in your head is like a marketing budget kind of thing
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, yeah, you have to pay the entry fee and if your film gets in you have to supply them with a whole bunch of Supplementary materials that they need to promote the film photographs and synopsises and things to put in a program You got to pay to ship the film down and these films that the early films that I made were all 35 millimeter. So I wasn't shipping a digital file over a computer. I was shipping a big canister of film about this big. And so that those costs of that was like a hundred bucks a shot or whatever to ship it down to the right Festival and then you had to ship it back at the end and so the festivall. I don't recall if they cover the cost of that or notbut it was you know it was a little bit of a dancing act to prepare for the festivals and once you're there You just find yourself immersed with a like-minded crowd of up-and-coming filmmakers who just you know are happy to see their films happy to support other films and You talk behind the scenes behind the stages and just you know, it's a great old time
Jim Allan: But you've you have won all sorts of awards and I've got a couple here so you you were a winner of the Austin Film Festival screenplay competition a semi-finalist in the Academy nickel fellowships in screenwriting winner of the blood list, right and you were awarded telephone telefilm Canada new voices. Golden quill award as one of Canada's top emerging screenwriters. So all that's fun. Like that's good marketing stuff. That's all resume what I call resume material. So what were you're feeling through the years winning? What was important to you through the years?
Glenn Forbes: You know, I I call it kind of a type of validation really because when you start off
You know as a creative director as a writer you you know, you're writing for yourself
You're you're hoping that people will respond to the material, but you never really know and it's so hard to get industry professionals to read your material that the contest circuit tends to be. You know a starting point for new writers to actually see you know, if they're doing okay
What you end up doing if you end up Winning or placing highly in screenwriting competitions
You're basically getting the reinforcement that okay. I'm a bigger fish in a little lake
Maybe and then there's gonna come a point when you're gonna jump from being the big fish in the little lake to being the small fish in the big ocean if you want to play with Hollywood or the the film industry in Canada the film industry in the states at large So it was really a type of validation winning some of those things so it gets you in some doors. Maybe well, yeah it did
When so you're not just nobody or you're not just starting out you can at least point to yeah, here's some stuff I've done the first major award I won was the Austin Film Festival screenplay competition and it's generally regarded as the biggest and the best Screenwriting competition in the world. The nickel fellowships is also a screenwriting competition, but it's a fellowship. So it's a slightly different. So it's the biggest fellowship in the world and I got a semi-finalist in that one and won the Austin one. What the backtrack the second film I made was a film called Masterpiece Monday. Which actually served as a sample version of a feature link script that I wrote and that feature link script was the one That won Austin so in a way my second film did what I wanted my first film to do which was become a Sample for a feature film screenplay and that one winning Austin. I went to Austin. I went to the film festival Got my award on stage and the validation was here You have an audience full of managers and agents and producers and after the the award ceremony wrapped up I had my big golden typewriter award in my hand which weighs about 20 pounds. You have people running up to say I want to read your script. I want to read your script Can you send me your script? You have a copy and in those days, you know emailing scripts back and forth Wasn't a big thing. So I had a couple of big heavy copies in my bag paper copies this was like the early 2000s and But just you know people from
various organizations just wanting to read it one of them was Ivan Reitman famous Canadian filmmaker, you know Ghostbusters And so you don't get that you don't get that connection without Paying the money to get in the festivals and exactly doing the doing the work really exactly.
Jim Allan: How did that go? With Ivan Reitman.
Glenn Forbes: I never met him but I was talking you were aware that he I was I had a long meeting with His director of development and we talked that she loved the script. She read it on the plane on the way back from Austin to to California loved it passed it to Ivan Ivan responded really positively positively to it And it was just nice to know the they ultimately felt it wasn't right for their company. But to get that validation out there's really a top-level film director was was really good for me so when you wake up in the morning, what do you consider yourself a screenwriter first or What's it? Do you write every day for instance? Are you are you a writer first? I would say as my over the past 20 years or so. Yeah, I've segued more to writing and less in production, right? I don't necessarily write every day. But when I am writing if I have an idea that is hot in my head and I start putting it on paper It becomes a little bit of an obsession and it does become almost a daily writing job.
Jim Allan: Would you would you Turn out a script a year or sometimes you hear about people's
Writing a script in on a weekend or something. Yeah, you could do that with lots of typos.
Glenn Forbes: I'm sure I once wrote a script in I think it was ten day. It was the fastest I've ever been able to turn one around. But generally speaking, you know, I can't write that fast, but you know, I can write two a year I'm working on my second one this year now. I hope to have it done by Christmas. You know the maximum I would ever try would be three a year. They're generally three to four months to write a script to get it from an idea to actually polished
Ready for the marketplace kind of kind of script.
Jim Allan: So, I mean there's I mean, I'm sure we've read many of the same script writing
books and things but do you Do you have an outline? Do you know the whole plot or the structure of the story before you really sit down and write the screenplay
Glenn Forbes: Say yeah when I was starting out my first few I didn't really have a solid idea of the whole plot I kind of I knew the beginning and I kind of knew the ending but I didn't know how I was gonna get there and I wanted to write them in such a way that I would surprise myself as I went along so if I'm Surprised if the characters can take me on a journey as I'm writing through this story Maybe audiences will respond and be surprised by the story too. Nowadays, you know and that sometimes works and that sometimes leaves you writing yourself into a corner and you have no way. And you've just gone on a tangent that you really was not intended. I once wrote a script that I intended to be a really Action-packed horror kind of zombie picture and It ended up being a comedy because I let the characters tell the story sort of an action comedy. So nowadays I'm more diligent about knowing the whole story before I write I have down on paper whether it's two or three pages bullet points
You know, this is what happens in act one act two act three and then there's still enough wiggle room that you know. If the character does something if I'm writing a scene and and characters go in a different tangent that I can Explore that a little bit and have that spontaneity in the storyline.
Jim Allan: So here are some titles of things Glenn has written Amplifier the bug in the system the Orion Odyssey death by chocolate cake desires of the heart Legends of fiend lab
Masterpiece Monday, which you mentioned Sunday morning live the day Lacey called the underground. Do you do you have a favorite genre? Is it sci-fi? You know, you can say are you a sci-fi writer?
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, my favorites I've always loved sci-fi. You know, there's so many people like when I was starting, you know My career was launched by a love of Jaws and a love of Star Wars, right? So I would say sci-fi thriller horror action are probably 75 80 percent of what I write. You know, but I'm you know, I've also written police thrillers I've written the submarine movie I've written a period piece set in the late 1800s I've written psychologically more complex stories about parallel worlds. Which is a sci-fi concept as well. So I just I'd like to mix it up a little bit. But my heart is probably in the sci-fi horror thriller action genres any particular themes. Through your work the themes. Originally no, but as I've gotten older when I became a parent about 20 years ago I found that a lot of my themes now revolve around Father and children relationships o parent-child relationships child in jeopardy parent in jeopardy
Jim Allan:Seems to find its way into a lot of stories now those early Spielberg movies
It was always a broken family right there was always a divorced parent
Glenn Forbes: Yes. I think it's it's reflective of where you are as a human being in your life the things that you're passionate about that. You turn into your stories. I think they run in parallel sometimes when I was younger I was just writing, you know a lot of those films you quoted a few moments ago were were a lot of student films, right? the short films and student films early in my career and You know and those don't have those feelings because I at that point in my life. I wasn't you didn't have feelings about parenthood. I was just a young guy out to you know
Create my own Star Wars my own Jaws movies and things
Jim Allan: wasn't it your sister writer or as well? And she's had some early succes In Hollywood, I think did that drive you nuts or was that did that motivate you that would drive me nuts
Glenn Forbes: It was it was a motivator because she could do it. I could do it. Well, she did it like as we talked about I was in the midst of my corporate career in the mid 90s right and. And she she was also working at Sears at that time or in the early 90s after she graduated from radio and television arts at Ryerson. But then she started writing scripts for various shows in Canada. She she wrote an X files a spec script that I remember had a lot of traction
It got her meetings with a lot of producers and she ended up writing in some Canadian
you know sci-fi shows in in Canada like sci-factor and Correct me if I'm wrong Regenesis things like that, right and that all throughout the late 90s Managed to get her a meeting with Joss Whedon at Buffy the vampire slayer and she went to LA and she wrote on Buffy
The vampire slayer for a year and
Jim Allan: she was like young young in her 20s at that.
Glenn Forbes: Oh, yeah
Jim Allan: Yeah, so it was a big break.
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, it was it was a big break. So I'm there watching going wow it can really be done. So it was really that was the motivation for me to actually Start skewing away from my corporate world and say I can I can make films I can write scripts So I started that's when I started my sort of jump starting into that world was in the late 90s as well
Jim Allan: I mean, did you ever try moving to Los Angeles?
Glenn Forbes: No.
Jim Allan: you never tried or did you you visited I visited?
Glenn Forbes: Yeah many times you never wanted to move there um, there would have been a time when maybe it was preferable, but You know it was a life back here had a life back here and uh,
Jim Allan:yeah, I'll get back to that idea. Um, I'm sure as I mentioned, I'm sure we've read some of the same script writing books. Do you do you have any favorite books like off the top of your head that you can think of I didn't Tell you to um
Glenn Forbes: There was one book I read early in my career because I'm kind of a self-taught screenwriter. I took um, I read a book called um
Sid Field on screenwriting.
Jim Allan: Yeah famous book.
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, very famous book from the 90s read that when I got started So I could just get the basics down took a couple of seminars um With I remember a gentleman named Richard Walter who was the head of screenwriting. I think at ucla at the time um And learned that way but never took a formal course in screenwriting I just you know used the books and and the courses and
Jim Allan: you ever heard of that robert mckee?
Glenn Forbes: I took a course from him as well
Jim Allan: I took that as well. I found it. Uh Yeah, it was parodied in the charlie kaufman movie adaptation. Okay, if you recall Did you ever remember seeing adaptation
Glenn Forbes: a long time ago, but
Jim Allan: it was Charlie kaufman who had a real killer Run there. I forget. Yeah famous actor played him. I played him.
Glenn Forbes: Nicholas cage.
Jim Allan: Nicholas cage uh, and uh the guy from uh succession, um
The older the older gentleman played robert mckee. Uh, the guy. Oh, okay. Um, yeah, I know forget
Glenn Forbes: brian cox.
Jim Allan: What I remember from that course because that's like a weekend course
Because they they spend the last day going over casablanca and I there's a book robert mckee came out of that play. But it was always the inciting incident and that stuck with me
Yeah, because you could use that in any kind of storytelling. I need something's got to happen here near the beginning Of the story sooner the better. Another um the other book that
Um, you ever heard thomas lennon. He's an actor writer Uh, you you might recognize him. He was uh, he was the in friends. He was the hand twin in one episode, but he in a movie called 17 again, uh, matthew perry zack effron. So he was matthew perry's Adult friend in 17 again if you haven't seen that but he wrote a book called Writing movies for fun and profit and the fun is crossed out because it's not that fun, I guess and like how we made in subtitle how we made a billion dollars at the box office and you can too um he wrote like night at the museum
And night at the museum too, I think or co-wrote and so therefore getting over a billion dollars
So a couple a couple things stuck with me Out of that book is that your script?
As wonderful that might as it might be you could You could you could get fired from it. Let's say you you somebody liked it. You can get fired from II. It can go through like 20 rewrites with 20 different people It could make it to the big screen and your name's not even on on the credit
So it was it's a I like the book because it seemed honest in that sense
But he also getting back to this idea of living in los angeles his whole thing was
You should live in los angeles because Let's say you get fired from that script or but at least you're there and somebody else can hire you As a script doctor or here take a draft at this and we'll pay you x amount of dollars. So what do you what do you say to that? Do you do you have to move to los angeles to make it?
Glenn Forbes: There was a time And I would probably say the cutoff of that was in the early 2000s that you would want to be in los angeles. You have to be in los angeles if you want to work as a tv writer All the rooms all the creative rooms for tv shows are in la my sister moved to la when she worked on buffy um for films
It's very helpful to be in la because that's where all the producers are the agents the managers the development people the studios. But now that the world has segued to become more of an online world. You know, it's not as crucial for film writers to be in la because you know a meeting is just a zoom call away. Um, you don't need to pitch people in person anymore at down at i'm going to you know, i'm going to sony today. I'm going to paramount tomorrow. I'm going to universal next week to pitch my movie. You don't have to do that physically anymore. You can get online if you're lucky enough to get a pitch You can do it through a through a zoom call. So, you know. Yeah, when I was starting my career, I thought well moving to la would probably help my career. But as time went on And I got older it became more evident that you know, I can pitch from here I you know the distance actually works in my favor I can get access
Through connections through zoom calls and through You know festival winnings or screenwriting competition winnings and and still get the same thing that you would get it as as an in-person Pitcher in a room in a studio somewhere
And you know, i've never been a great Talker or pitcher for my ideas. I much prefer to let my writing speak for itself. So generally i'm happier sending off an email with a log line of what the film could be and a little bit about. What i've accomplished and let's say that sounds really good send us a script and let the words let the creativity speak for itself. As opposed to me going in a room and having to talk for three to five minutes and sell the story face to face
Which is always for a lot of writers is a very nerve-racking experience
I'll tell you a story about a writer who was at approximately my stage When I won austin
He also won austin and went for a meeting with a big studio head in los angeles Around that time in in the few months following the festival And he was pitching his idea, which um, I won't get into the specifics what the story was But as he was pitching for three to five minutes the executive pulled out nail clippers and began clipping his nails And he would line them up on the edge of the desk each time he did a nail So about the fourth or fifth clipping the writer felt
He's counting me down. He's going to tune out after 10 after he finishes his nails fingers
And he basically did and he got all nervous and he got flustered and the pitch didn't go very well.
And at the end When he got to the 10 the executive stood up and walked out
So I said, okay, I guess my time is over. Thank you for your time and out the door
So pitching in person can you know, and that's probably an extreme example of what can happen to writers in rooms. But it you know, it doesn't help. Um the nerves at all when you have to face something like that
Jim Allan: I heard of Horrible audition stories like that, you know people take a call or all that. I mean all that said what's it. What does it take to be successful? Do you think?
Is it is is luck a big part of it or I mean you're turning out a script or two a year for20 30 years, right? So like Do you have to be lucky good and lucky?
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, you really do You have to be At a place where your your writing is at the highest level possible Your stories have to be commercially viable Because people are not you know, I write for for predominantly for the United States I don't write a lot for canadian companies. SoYou know people in you know can generally see the difference between a canadian movie in a us hollywood blockbuster They're much more commercial. They're much more flashy in the states. The canadian ones tend to skew more independent more personal stories more stories about canada and the people. So I tend to write more for the states and you know you have to be Really good at writing to be able to command an audience
But even if you're really good at writing if you don't have luck on your side You know you you really can't get the door open to get people to read it. And so luck is
You know luck and timing, you know, you might get a reader for a company who
Who hates your script.
I had a reader once that I forget how he read he read my my script that won austin
And he hated it and he trashed it and I saw the coverage and it was just brutal
Not a word changed and it went and it won austin the biggest festival in the world without a word being changed. So really you're at the mercy of whoever reads your script. Whether it's a production assistant in a studio or a development assistant because people screen the scripts
Jim Allan: I remember I knew a Script reader once yeah script readers, so they're just people out of school or whatever and usually the mainstream level jobs. And they get swamped with
Yeah, and that's the the old cliche is there's a pile of scripts in somebody's office somewhere
So how do you
Glenn Forbes: they're just looking for a reason to say no. They're instructed by their bosses Tell me why we don't want to read this so that right so To be able to break through that barrier
Luck timing the right reader at the right time the right producer is looking for the right material at the right time. It's an enormous challenge for writers trying to get their material read by anybody and I faced it for You know 20 years
Jim Allan: So what's the like that first couple pages?
It's got to be hot right of your of your you you've got to grab people right away. There's no lazy
The beginnings to your scripts I suspect because you're in that in back of your mind you go
I have to grab people right away.
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, and that's a that's a lesson learned over time You know some of my earlier scripts are not you know as good as they should be because you know Nobody's starting out as as good as they will become later. It's practice practice and refinement and learning from others and reading other scripts and working with you know I've been lucky enough over the past 10 12 years to work with a lot of producers.
People who have hired me to write scripts for them. So when you work with people who've had the number one movie in north america. You listen to what they say when they comment on your work and they and you understand how this scene As good as it is Could be elevated to be even better or this ending shouldn't go in that direction should go in this direction because. This is how we want it. This is you know, the right way to go it to satisfy The character's journey in this particular story, so it's a combination of Becoming a better writer by working with people who really know their stuff and learning from them as you develop
Script after script after script and you know, you're being paid to write these things
So you have to write it the way they want it So i'm not the type to fight back and say that's that's wrong or whatever. I'll give an opinion Um as to what I think it should be but ultimately, you know, you're there to learn from them. And they know so much Um that I grew as a writer
Uh over the past 10 years more than I had in the previous 15 before that Simply by working with people who are at the top of their game and so you're but you have to be willing to listen
Presumably right and
Jim Allan: so even At this stage of your life you're willing to listen
Glenn Forbes: Absolutely. Yeah, I'm I feel like i'm learning Every time i'm writing a script. It's like you're you're basically creating a new world You know, um and you need to Be able to have a vision for that world But you need to be able to sort of remove yourself from your vision and listen to what other people think of your world And say, okay Is this really coming across the way I want it to or the way I think it should or you know Or or or is the perspective on this character? How are you feeling about this character as an audience member? So I don't really like them and I don't think they would do that. That makes me dislike that character So, okay interesting because I hadn't thought of that when I originally wrote it. So Does everything these days?
Jim Allan: Movies to be commercial they've got it all figured out with algorithms and stuff
Does that I mean so movies that have a happy ending probably do better at the box of just then Movies with a sad or an ambiguous ending casablanca earlier mentioned is famously kind of a bittersweet end Famous it's often what people are kind of aiming for some sort of
Bittersweet ambiguous but maybe uplifting ending right? So how do you feel about?
the trend toward Like the pressure to have a happy ending in Like a hollywood-style movie
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, um, you know There's writer's instinct and then there's the pressures of the marketplace and and they're constantly fighting each other as to You know how your story should resolve and yeah There's been instances where I've written scripts that have had a very dark ending And there's been instances where that dark ending was challenged by a producer that I was writing it for And there's instances where I wanted to have a happy ending because I just felt this story needed a happy ending So, you know, it really comes down to what the script is you're writing and the message and the theme that you're trying to send um, you know, um My bloodless readings my bloodless winning script the wreckage had a um Had a very ambiguous ending to it And I wanted to take it even to another level
I had a whole idea written for an extra 10 or 15 pages in the end of the script and the producer
Who I was working with at the time said no, no, no, we can't do that
It's you're taking it one step too far. We need to bring it back Ambiguity is okay. Because you feel good about the ambiguity
But taking it one step further it becomes a tragedy and we don't want a tragedy
So, you know It's it's always a challenge trying to satisfy an audience and make them feel good about the movie they saw But also as a creative writer thinking
What is the right resolution for this character? Do they deserve a tragic ending? Do they deserve an ambiguous ending? Do they deserve a happy ending? You just you have to feel that through in your story
Jim Allan: Have you ever thought about teaching because you sound like i'm learning from you so it sounds uh,Have you ever been invited. ever any ambitions in that area in terms of screenwriting?
Glenn Forbes: No, I always feel like who am I?
Jim Allan: Right,
Glenn Forbes: um, I always feel like why would anybody want to listen to me? It's not like i'm you know, i've got you know three number one hollywood blockbusters to my name i'm just uh You know, I think I think I know The business of screenwriting well enough. I could teach it, but I just don't feel like i'm the type of guy that would really Be able to do that
Um, I just never felt that I quite attain that level. I'm just kind of a guys still trying to just
Write the love of writing is is where i'm at. You know, I just
that whole feeling of Creating the story coming up with the characters figuring out what the twists are figuring out the themes
Um the conflicts between the characters how they all work together to come to a resolution. That's the area. I love Being in you know, that's what it's about for me.
Jim Allan: Well, we're talking about happy endings a minute ago, but like
You know romantic comedies The genre is kind of fighting back to life
But one of the reasons it died is that they were kind of predictable, right?
You know that okay these people are getting together. And it's just enjoy the ride I guess but they became so predictable that I'd stop wanting to go so. But they're they're trying to come back. Um, what's your view of the current like the current State of hollywood movies right now?
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, I used to write some comedies earlier in my career Romantic comedy, I wrote one romantic comedy one ensemble and one sort of a raunchy comedy in the vein of
A wedding crashers meets 40 year old virgin type of story. So there were romantic elements in all of them But then yeah, the industry constantly shifted. Probably 10 years ago or more where comedies just weren't in favor. So I I stopped writing them and that's when I segued into you know, I got a manager in la at that time and. We were talking said, you know if you want to get movies made write low budget genre stories horrors thrillers you know
And that's the world you should be writing in so I consciously made a decision to step away from the comedies the romance the commercial aspects because the market just wasn't having them and began writing lower budget contained thrillers horrors that sort of thing and that's Really when my success started happening in terms of being able to show these scripts to producers And them hiring me to write their material for them, which is the goal of any screenwriter you know, I found over the course of the last 15 years that you know
Rarely does an original spec script something that the writer wrote for themselves get produced.
It's pretty rare Um what your what your what your spec scripts are are auditions for producers to say this guy this writer can write for you This writer can adapt this book. This writer can take your idea and flesh it out into a full story so that'smost of my writing assignments over the past 10 years have been Adapting other people's books adapting producer or director ideas or taking a short film and expanding it Do these ideas start with you or does someone come with come to you say we've got can you put here's a short story story That we've optioned.
Jim Allan: Can people contact you directly?
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, basically that happens.
Jim Allan: Okay.
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, that's kind of like The scripts I write for myself while I love them and I'd love to see them get made Ultimately, they're used as auditions, you know, my manager sent me to a meeting once with a production company in in london england and they had a they the production company had optioned a short film by a Director and um And I got on a long-distance zoom call with them and we talked that i'd seen the short and I talked about How I would and they had read one of my other scripts and I talked about how I would adapt the short how I would stretch it out And we were all seemed to be on the same wavelength. So they hired me to uh to turn that directors short Into a feature-like screenplay that that director would later come back and direct
Jim Allan: Okay, what's the difference between a manager and an agent?
Glenn Forbes: What does a manager do for you that an agent does managers are generally more career focused. They work with you. They set you up with meetings. They help you with material they. Coach you they develop your talent. They give you hints as to What you might want to consider writing, you know how you might want to. You know market yourself in the community in in the film community. Whereas an agent these days agents are really about the deal. You have to have a pretty established career. You have to be constantly making money Being hired to write scripts consistently Usually in and around los angeles. So to seek as a new writer to seek an agent is Really an uphill battle because they really only want the people
Who are making money already so they can take their 10 percent, right? Whereas a manager is more. Working with you to develop a career
Jim Allan: Right and you you currently have a manager in los angeles or yes you do.
Glenn Forbes: Yeah
Jim Allan: and so they're the person finding These these these gigs that need to be flushed out. Yeah, basically. Yeah, he's anyone ever contact you directly or is that possible?
Glenn Forbes: It's funny enough the um, I wasn't contacted directly but it was funny. It was through face facebook of all places. There was an ad on a on a facebook group a screenwriting group And it was a local producer here in toronto And they had a book that they had optioned and they were looking for a screenwriter to adapt the book. So I reached out to them through facebook without my manager being involved and I said, hey, let's talk and we met
It was I think it was during the film festival one year 2017 2018 it was before covid and um talked and They they read my sample scripts and they said yeah, let's do this. So it was at that point. I then Contacted my manager and then he contacted them to set up
Kind of what my rate
Jim Allan: your manager would do the negotiating?
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, technically they don't do the negotiating. They're not legally to do the negotiating to you need to be sort of licensed and managers are unlicensed in in america.
Okay but um, you know, he works with a lawyer who reviews the contracts and you know
And and i've done enough of these contracts to kind of know what to look for in them
And he's sort of a guiding light to help me navigate any of the business aspects that
Come up when i'm signing a contract like that.
Jim Allan: So we're talking a lot about horror. I mean horror as a genre. Is big right now. It's it's what's getting it's the younger people. Including my daughter who was scared spiders
They go that's getting them back to the theater like the people. Left the theaters for many years and they're gradually coming back but horror as a genre are getting the kid the the young adults. Back into the theater. Why is that? What what is it about horror that it's a
Is it an internet is horror international in scope or is there's or is it because there's a lot of there's not a lot of As much dialogue or is some some of it's a lot of his visual or or why is it do you think?
Glenn Forbes: If I had to guess I don't think horror ever went away And yeah, it is back right now hotter than ever a couple of huge ones with uh, things like obsession And back rooms and now resident evil which I saw on the weekend, which is fantastic
Jim Allan: The young woman in obsession could win best actress possibly.
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, so movies like that this year three really solid horror movies Um have to have brought the whole genre right back and people are paying attention to it again but um, you know, so it never really went away, but I think what it is about horror is that You know, it is the most Raw visceral experience you can have in a theater you know, you don't get the same type of rush from a romantic comedy or from A western or a period piece but horror
You can experience the thrill and the dread of being scared And uh know that you're safe. You're surrounded by your friends in the theater. You're at home watching it with your family on a on a streaming service or whatever. So I think that's kind of why horror and plus they're also you know it If the filmmaker's good, they don't need a huge budget to be able to scare you
uh some of the Some of the simple scares in resident evil. Yeah resident evil had a really big budget, but the simplest scares Were done very creatively jump scares and you know
I jumped three times in that movie and I don't usually jump in movies and none of them had to do with special effects
or budget things
Jim Allan: so even you Find movies like that kind of movie not you don't find them predictable
Like you if it's well done it's even you are surprised?
Glenn Forbes: Yeah, if it takes me some place I haven't seen before and I think maybe that's where horror got a little bit of a bad rap over the past five years or more Is they kind of became? Repetitive upon themselves films like the the conjuring series of movies and the insidious movies and things like that Um, they kind of went down the same road over and over again and maybe that wore out a little bit Now the fresh ideas in these newer movies are I think pretty tantalizing to an audience to be able to have a new fresh scary experience
Jim Allan: So do you I mean I kind of imagine some of the people watching this might be aspiring Screenwriters, right? Is it important to go out and see everything? You seem to know what's going on So is it important to go out and see?
Glenn Forbes: Everything or I think yeah, I think um, you know if um If you want to do it
As a career you need to make yourself aware of what that world is currently
Doing that means getting out and seeing movies reading scripts Going out to networking events and talking to producers and other screenwriters understanding the lay of the land as far as what the market is like right now and what maybe you should be doing as a As a struggling up-and-coming screenwriter to to break in what's what can your strategy be where? Where should you focus your attention? So I think all of that is important. Are you optimistic about the future. Is it uh, no one really knows anything about anything, right?
Jim Allan: So how movies will do how the theater experience is changing even as we go and there's pinball machine or there's video machines outside your theater on your way and Selling you popcorn. Are you are you? Are you positive about what's what's ahead?
Glenn Forbes: I think people will always want to be entertained people always want to Have that escape They always want to live vicariously through somebody else whether it's on their favorite tv show or in their at a movie at a theater Um, yeah theaters have had to expand the way they attract people much the same as you know You can now buy groceries at shoppers drug mart. You know, you need to expand a way to get people to come to your facility So I I think it's never going to end up I think you know you look at something like broadcast television the three major Us networks that I had as I was growing up really are very minor players now in the broad scheme of Your netflix's and your apple tv's and your amazon primes all these streaming services that have really sucked the life out of broadcast television
I don't know if that'll ever happen with movies because I think People like to get out they like to have that communal experience I know tom cruise talks about it all the time You know we make movies for the big screen so that people can come together and enjoy these stories
And be immersed in these in these stories and and I kind of believe them
I think that will always be there it may change it may adjust over time
but I think that whole communal experience of going to a movie is
Is uh is the way the future will be as as long as the movies can kind of stay away from ai
And the soullessness that that ai digital characters and things can bring to a movie
because if if they start relying too much on ai then You know, I can see audiences tuning out from that. There's there's such a negative backlash towards Ai storytelling right now. I know if you're a screenwriter and you're using ai to write your stories
Um, you know, you're you're basically shooting yourself in the foot as far as far as having a career in the future
Jim Allan: So why would you say that? There's just a backlash like the soul the soullessness like it's just something you can't really put a finger on I guess It's just yeah, it's can can a computer write a joke.
Glenn Forbes: What it's what it's doing is ai is taking every joke that's ever been written that it has in its database and it's regurgitating it. So you're not really being true to human creativity if you're employing ai in your writing Um, i've used ai as a research tool, you know if I want to know For a script I wrote earlier this year I wanted to know the exact process that an emergency team would take to Rescue somebody who was trapped in a in a crashed vehicle at the bottom of a ravine. You know I don't physically have the time to go out and talk to those type of workers and interview them and figure out what they do Ai will summarize all the information on it and it's enough for me to create a scene Knowing that that is the process so that in terms of ai is helpful as a research aspect of creating stories, but you know the stories themselves they they need to come from the human heart from the human condition and ai
Doesn't really know that it just regurgitates what it knows and it doesn't really know how to put it together in a way That can actually be moving to a human being I find
Jim Allan: I think that's a good place to end it. I think we've covered a lot of ground So I do want to thank you for. Coming out and sharing your experience. I think a lot of people will find it pretty interesting.
Glenn Forbes: This has been a lot of fun. Thank you for having me.