Interview with Anna Emmanouil (returns)

Anna Emmanouil, who now works for Properly Homes, is my first return guest. We touch on several topics, including why she changed agencies, the role of social media in her business, her wish for more female mentors in #realestate, and how imposter syndrome is a real thing. And, perhaps most importantly, Anna helps me with a problem.

Watch: https://youtu.be/vxF-_ujKdiY

Unedited Transcript.

Jim Allan: Anna Emmanouil, the first person to appear twice on the show. A return visit. So hello.

Anna Emmanouil: Hi.

Jim Allan: So, um, how did appearing on my podcast change your life?

Anna Emmanouil: Oh my God.

Jim Allan: Be honest.

Anna Emmanouil: Actually, it was really life changing. It was a real, so thank you for having me back. I have to say, I did something right. It was, um, you know what? It was an opportunity to discuss this big shift that I had made in my life, making a big change from one career into real estate. And then what I think what our conversation did for me was it sort of validated my decision and it made it feel really real. And instead of it just being in my head that, oh yes, this is what I do now. I was able to articulate all the feelings and thoughts I had around that move and just get it out on the table. And it felt really good. It was not like therapy exactly, but a little bit like that.

Jim Allan: So that video, uh, that conversation, uh, in case people haven't seen it, it was basically you worked a long time in events and television and you made the big decision to move into real estate.

Anna Emmanouil: Yes.

Jim Allan: Right.

Anna Emmanouil: And that was a huge change because I did not really expect that I would ever make that true commitment to make that shift. And I did it.

Jim Allan: Now, another big decision that I thought it'd be fun to have you back talk about, um, you're a real estate agent, but not long after we talked, you changed agencies. Why do people change agencies? Why did you change agencies?

Anna Emmanouil: Yeah. You know, it's funny. Um, most agents I now know dread January because basically you don't know what your year will look like. You don't know whether you're going to have any clients that year. You don't know how you're going to feel about the market. The market is shifting constantly. You just don't know what's going to happen. And what I found is that at my older firm that I was at, which I actually feel was top notch, incredibly well run firm, I had outgrown some of the things that they were teaching me already. And I thought I need to learn something more somewhere else. So it wasn't that I left them because they did anything wrong. They were wonderful and actually really have a lot of good relationships still with them. But when I made the decision to move, it was twofold. First of all, the place that I was going to was offering me the opportunity to work with some of their client base already, already in place. So I'd bring my own clients. Plus they had some clients that I could work with. And that was, it proved to me to be a really wonderful marriage.

Jim Allan: Okay. This is what you wrote on Instagram about this.

Anna Emmanouil: Oh my God. This is your life.

Jim Allan: I know I'm throwing your words back in your face here.  In late 2021. I was feeling really disillusioned with the real estate industry. I joined this business to help people find their dream home. And I was beginning to find it was way too focused on the agent and the process and not so much on the people at the heart of it, the client who needs a solution. So that ring a bell?

Anna Emmanouil: I still totally feel that way. I didn't remember the words that I use, but that's, I do remember writing it now.

Jim Allan: It was a stressful day.

Anna Emmanouil: You know what? I really, really feel strongly that so brokerages generally do focus on the agent at the heart of the transaction and don't spend a lot of time thinking about what the agent is doing for the customer or the client at the end of that transaction. And I started to feel very upset by that because what I found is agents were, I don't know, not colluding. It's not the right word, but communicating with each other as clients weren't mattering, money didn't matter. It was, let's make this deal happen. What do you know, what are you going to do to get your client to sign this? And really pushing people in directions that I didn't feel comfortable. And no one at my company was doing that, but generally I was exposed to so many agents behaving like that. And I thought there's gotta be a better place where there are better agents and I, but what I mean by that is people who have high morals, high values, integrity, and really put the client at the centre of the transaction. It's not about whether the brokerage has, um, fancy title and makes a lot of money at the end of the day or the agents do, because yes, we make some money, but at the end of the day, my clients are the ones that have to hold that mortgage at the end of the day. They're the ones who have to, you know, be able to sleep at night. So I really did make that shift and I felt very strongly at that time. And I, it was the right move for me.

Jim Allan: When you're out with an agent too, like someone like me, because I've maybe done three or four transactions in my life kind of thing, but sometimes there is a moment where is this person just want to make the transaction and get the, you know, or not. And that's sometimes, you know, if you change your mind about that person, it can happen in a second. Like, so you always have to, an agent I've dealt with out here is actually, uh, always has the right answer to whatever obstacle. Comes up.

Jim Allan: It's like, and it's amazing talking about, you know, therapy. It's like, sometimes you're, cause it's a very emotional time usually, and you're freaking out and you're not getting as much money as you wanted or whatever. And so it's very emotional issue. It can be. And so sometimes you just need someone to talk you down from the ledge.

Anna Emmanouil: Right. Talk you down from the ledge, but you know that they're in your corner at the same time that they're not working for the other guy. And I don't mean that

Jim Allan: or themselves, right? So that's the issue for me. It's like other guys, maybe they're, maybe they are on the other side of the transaction as well, which is another thing completely, but you do want someone that's on your side.

Anna Emmanouil: Yes. And there's a lot of clients that recognize that and others that don't some trust easily, some, it takes a long time to build trust. And any and all are okay. Ultimately, my entire personal brand and my connection to real estate is that it's no pressure. Um, it's a no pressure situation. You have this much. That's what we offer. We don't kill ourselves to offer more. And then you can't sleep at the end of the day. Like that's painful. I don't want to be in that position myself. So I would never want my clients to be in that position, but there are certainly a lot of agents who are high transaction focused. And I'm not, I'm actually focused on quality and length of relationship rather than one. Yeah. Go, go, go, go.

Jim Allan: So back to this Instagram thing. Um, but I've noticed you, you're on Instagram a lot or a little bit more than you used to, right?

Anna Emmanouil: yeah.

Jim Allan: So typically it's new listings. Uh, Hey, I've got an open house. Come and visit me at the open house. So is what's that been like? Wait, is that working for you?

Anna Emmanouil: Um, well, I realized at some point that people just want to know what I'm thinking as I'm going through my day sometimes, and yes, it's really exciting to show gorgeous pictures of houses and that does float my boat for me. I love it anyway. So I put that up, but I realized at some point, I mean, I had one Instagram where I was sitting in the car, waiting for the rain to stop.

Jim Allan: I was just thinking about that. I was just going to say that to you.

Anna Emmanouil: What am I going to do? I'm going to wreck my hair. I didn't bring an umbrella. So many people reach out to me after that. They were like, you're like a real person, but it was, it was, you know what it is because in real estate, it's a really lonely business. You are alone a lot. You're in your car a lot. You're driving around a lot. You're thinking about your clients, but you're not with your clients. Most of the time you're looking at houses on their behalf. And sometimes I end up a lot in my car and I'm like, I have something to say about this moment right now. And I'm going to say it. And I, uh, I started to sort of rip the bandaid as they say, being less polished, less perfect. And I have come to the realization that people want to know who you really are, then you just tell them really naturally and organically on Instagram. I really don't feel like people all, you know, want to know every single listing and all the details. They can look that up pretty easily. They just Google it. Boom, there's the address, but it's really more my style and who I am and how I approach the business that I think people get to know.

Jim Allan: Well, it is, it is interesting. There's a couple of things. I mean, you can just, you know, the phones are great these days, but you just pan your, you got, you used to have all these beautiful and you probably still do beautiful professional shots, but you can also just pan your phone or your a thousand dollar phone around. And it looks okay. That's maybe a more realistic vision of what it is. Now we were just talking just before we started about, uh, someone I stumbled across in Hamilton, a realtor, a woman, probably in her thirties, I figure, and, uh, but it's like every moment of her day. Uh, and it's like, I just had this awful transit, you know, phone call with another agent. And it's quite intoxicating because it's, it is, it's kind of a warts and all thing. I don't know.

Anna Emmanouil: It's a behind the scenes feel.

Jim Allan: I don't know if it's working for her or not, but it's, you know, it's on my feed all the time.

Anna Emmanouil: Well, you like to know the background, the behind the scenes stuff. So maybe that's the, uh, it's got you, it's got you packed.

Jim Allan: So you're a little more active on Instagram. So do you have any, any particular strategy there? Or is it just kind of a, uh,

Anna Emmanouil: well, usually the strategy is to communicate honestly, at least once or twice a week. I'm on camera just talking about what I'm doing, where I'm at, what I'm seeing, what might be coming up. And then when my listings come up, those are getting coverage two or three times that week, if not the next week. Um, but I don't do a ton of promotions yet. I haven't gotten into that sort of next level Instagram world, which I know is coming. And I think this is the year that I, at 2023, I have to dig in a little bit deeper into that side of things, because there's untapped potential both on Instagram, YouTube, sure. It's Facebook. I know I haven't even

Jim Allan: TikTok!

Anna Emmanouil: I haven't even started yet. I don't yet. Well, my daughter does.

Jim Allan: But there are realtors, uh, the person I'm talking to, uh, talking about was on a TikTok uh, investment people, self-styled financial gurus, and they're spitting out opinions. Uh, I think I showed you one briefly. Um, they're talking about, you know, renting versus owning. And you can go down this rabbit hole for an hour. All these arguments about renting versus owning or owning stocks versus owning a house. And they, and there's very compelling arguments for all of these things, uh, or the impact of high interest rates or rising interest rates, right? All of these things are big topics these days, but, and they, they flood the zone with content. And then they kind of, in a sense, become thought leaders, whether or not you agree with them or not. Um, I mean, you, you have to, you have to talk about all of these issues every day. Um, when you almost have to be an economist yourself, or you have to keep up with this stuff. So how do you do that?

Anna Emmanouil: Yeah, uh, it's a great question. I'm really active on my research. I am constantly researching data, um, through some of the typical sources, which are, um, the TREB, which is the Toronto Real Estate Board and, and sort of other boards that are tracking sales data. Um, I have a few charts that I track, uh, over time, over the last 10 years, what the sales are doing in terms of price, price of homes. Where have we seen busts and booms? So we can sort of see some patterns. So I'm constantly watching and reading economists, uh, predictions, which again, always with a grain of salt, but it helps that if you actually look at more than one, to your point, there's a lot of people who will say one thing and then they might recant it tomorrow. So you really have to have a breadth of knowledge across the board from bankers, from world economists, from insurance companies, from, uh, the, you know, the institutes that follow data for real estate and try to constantly bring that into some sort of focus and vision for people. Because absolutely you read the media one day, it says one thing the next day, it's another thing. And it's not that the media is wrong, they're, they're focusing on the data of that day and you really need context. And so context is all I ever do. I'm always sharing. How can we look at this information five years from now, five years from prior to now, and then what does that mean to you in the, at the end of the day?

Jim Allan: Well, it's like even, you know, with rising interest rates, the rate, the GICs go up too, right? Right. And so, um, so there's the inevitable article the other day where maybe you should consider getting a GIC because we're now, you know, these rates are edging up. And then if you read the whole article, of course they go, however, over 30 years, like the stock market is 8.6%. So, you know, there's no one answer, but what's right for you. And then I just left that out for my wife and look at that.

Anna Emmanouil: Well, that's what, but that's exactly to your point. What you're bringing up is the idea of at the end of the day, you're trying to create equity or wealth in your life for, to create possibly what they call generational wealth, right? It doesn't stop with you. You're handing something to someone else. Your father handed it to you. You might say, you know what? I want to hand to my girls this, uh, X, Y, Z. So I think everyone is asking themselves like, am I doing it right? Cause we don't really learn these things in school, right? Where should you invest your money? That's not a topic that is covered. So you end up, most people end up learning it at the kitchen table, which is really where most of my conversations about this stuff actually take place, right?

Jim Allan: So I have a question for you, Adlib questions. So, I mean, we moved about two and a half years ago. So, um, is it like financial suicide to just move like every couple of years? If you're not, I mean, there's not going to be any, if we had sold maybe a year ago, maybe we would have done better than today, but does it, I mean, cause that gets eaten up with fees and commissions, right? If I, if you, or what is there a bell, like should I wait five years before you've been thinking about it or?

Anna Emmanouil: You're totally right. It's exactly right. If you're moving every two, three years, the only value there is if you are actually, so there is the value that's in equity and then there's value in location that you're buying into. You may still be making a better move, moving into a better location, even if you feel like you're losing money, because ultimately if you do settle in one place, then that will grow much faster, right? You will see better, uh, return. But what I would say, the general rule is that Canadians usually move every five to seven and a half years. And that is usually five years before you see any actual growth in your.

Jim Allan: So that's a real stat?. The average Canadian moves every five to seven years, closer to seven years.

Anna Emmanouil: Yeah. And at some point when they reach into sort of 65 or so there seems to be a settling down of obviously the every seven year scenario, but that's obviously amortized over like all of Canadian, all of Canada. But, um, you see a lot of people move much more often. Some never ever move ever.

Jim Allan: Yeah. There's a variety of reasons why people have to move too. It might be work related or whatever.

Anna Emmanouil: Well, there's the new, you know, there's the single moving out of your home, then the couple, then a baby, then a second kid, then the big family home, then start starting back to downsize as the children get older. And then right to the, what we call, um, you know, sort of sizing your, your house for your life, where you are then moving into your retirement phase or whatever, and you're not necessarily going to need like a five bedroom house. So there are, there are a lot of real true life stages that I follow people through and we watch, you know, what are you going to need in five to 10 years? If you're going to invest in a place, make it a place you think you want to live in for five or seven years, if you do think you're not going to want it in two years, probably don't buy it.

Jim Allan: Well, I can tell you from personal experience, the kids do come back home. So you can never downsize. Well, we did downsize and that was, anyway, we have bunk beds everywhere now. It's hilarious. Kidding. Um, so back to this Instagram thing. This is a big theme of mine. Just, just getting into Instagram really lately. So, but you don't have, we talked about this a little bit last time. You don't seem to have a problem being on camera, right? Putting yourself on camera.

Anna Emmanouil: No.

Jim Allan: Um, I'm, you know, I'm getting more and more used to it. Um, yeah. So in our last chat, we talked briefly about how I find women in particular. So this is where I get in trouble generalizing about gender and things. Um, are a little bit, are a little bit camera shy, and you are not.

Anna Emmanouil: I'm not.

Jim Allan: That's what you admitted to me last time.

Anna Emmanouil: I am not shy.

Jim Allan: So, so I have a problem. I need your help.

Anna Emmanouil: Yeah.

Jim Allan: Okay. Um, the hardest part of, of doing a podcast like this is the booking part, the booking part.

Anna Emmanouil: That's the hardest part? Getting people?

Jim Allan: Well, it's, it's not, it's the least fun, that's for sure. Because it's like you, you're cold calling and kind of a, you know, that kind of thing. Um, so I'll think of, I'll, I'll think of someone. I'll see someone online or whatever, and I'll send them a note. Maybe I know that maybe I don't, um, you know, on several occasions I've approached women who, you know, claim to be helping other women smash the glass ceiling or whatever, um, in their professional capacity, but they balk at coming on or they express interest and then they ghost me. So it's a lot like dating. It's a lot like dating. Like they string you along and the, yeah, you know what? I'm just really not that interested.

Anna Emmanouil: Poor Jim getting ghosted.

Jim Allan: Well, some guys too, but, uh, I think some people think about it and go, oh my God, I gotta go on camera. I'm 48. I used to be 38. Who knows what they're thinking.

Anna Emmanouil: I might carry a little more around the middle. No, I'll tell you.

Jim Allan: So I'm here with you. Tell me the truth. Is it my cologne? Is it my, is it my lack of cologne?

Anna Emmanouil: Oh my God. No, you're, you're. Would it surprise you if I told you I'm not wearing any cologne?

Anna Emmanouil: Actually, I appreciate that you're not wearing cologne.

Jim Allan: You're allergic.

Anna Emmanouil: Yeah.

Jim Allan: So thoughts to this point.

Anna Emmanouil: Yeah. It's interesting. I ha I actually, I have, I have a lot to say about every topic, but this is one of those topics I do feel strongly about. Um, so certainly most people feel, I think there's a standard expectation that people have been shy to be on camera. I think it's changed a lot now because of social media. I certainly know that my daughters are not shy to be on camera. Now shy to be interviewed by somebody, maybe. And I think maybe that's where there is an obstacle for most people because they don't know what you might ask and they don't know how they'll sound.

Jim Allan: They're young teenagers though. Young.

Anna Emmanouil: Yeah. My girls are 10 and 12. Um, so they're, they don't want to be interviewed, but they, you know, the, the comfort on camera is like a whole other level.

Jim Allan: Now they grew, they literally were born into it, right?

Anna Emmanouil: Yeah. So when I talked to other women who are sort of in my age range or have, you know, been working for 20, 30 years and maybe they've achieved something and they should be on camera being interviewed about something I can tell you, they balk like crazy because they're embarrassed about something physical about themselves. I mean, I came on here, I was making a joke. I'm like, Oh, I got to pull in my stomach. I got my, you know, like.

Jim Allan: That's why I wear black.

Jim Allan: I know. And you know what the thing is? All of it is like, it's a mindset. I just decided I don't care about that because I'm more interested in talking to you than about that. So I think a lot of people get stuck there and I, and I do definitely think you're probably aiming correctly when you say maybe more women have that fear. I think you're right. Cause I live in that world and obviously cameras and everything up in your face and you know, when you're near 50, you're like, Oh, so it's interesting that you're getting sort of that response from people who should feel, in my opinion, really positive about themselves. Very confident. Cause they're obviously ballbusters. Like they're not like shy people sitting in the corner and yet they're afraid to be put on display. I guess

most people that I ask if they, if there's a, it's a quick yes, that's what, and then it's fine. If there's any kind of falling back and forth for awhile, right. Then you know, it's kind of, that's, that's to me, it's like, you're waiting for that return message or whatever. And it doesn't. And so it's that part's not fun. Everything else is fun. Editing is fun shooting. It's fun at preparing for the interviews.

Anna Emmanouil: Well, I love doing it. So thanks for having me. Thank you for, for, for, you know, breaking the mold. I'm like your first second time.

Jim Allan: Yes. You're the first return first return guest. Well, you know, what I've been doing is actually, cause there was a lot of really good interviews, if I can say, you know, with interesting people. But it was, I was just starting out and, and, and in all honesty, the viewer and I've found out ways to make the viewership go up. So instead of just repurposing a clip of yours, you do literally have a legitimate update because you did, you did make a big decision after we discussed talk and I, and you're, you know, you're good at it too. So, um, any words or encouragement or advice for women out there who are watching and are, you're kind of already did this, but, and are reticent about being in front of the camera. How can you, how can you get over this?

Anna Emmanouil: Yeah. Oh God, how do I, how do I mobilize that? I, I feel like women and men do this too. A lot of people, we get in our own way about things. We find a reason that we can't do something. And then we just decide that because I've thought it, it must be true, which is never really true. Like the glass ceiling idea. There are a lot of things that hold women back, but there's also the belief in oneself that you don't have to acknowledge that that's there anymore, you can push past it sometimes, not in every situation, but there's a lot of women who don't feel confidence in themselves. And a lot of it is self-talk and we do, all of us are guilty of speaking to ourselves in negative ways. And I think that there is something to be said for catching it and being able to say, why am I doing that? Because maybe I don't actually deserve that bad behavior from myself. So I don't exactly know. I think it's more just paying attention to the inner voice and asking it like, do you have a legitimate reason to say that to me? Or are you just my, you know,

Jim Allan: sometimes you just got to kind of go for it. Right. And, um, I just got a book that I have not read yet, but it's, uh, it's for artists, like painters and that kind of artists. And, but it's a lot of it's about self-sabotage and it's like being aware of that you're doing it and then getting over it. Yeah. But it's a big problem because it's, am I good enough? And actually a recent guest on the way out the door said to me, um, and I won't say who it was, but you know, there's imposter syndrome. Sure. It's like, do you have, do you have, do you have imposter?

Anna Emmanouil: Oh God, of course.

Jim Allan: I mean, you hear these, all these economic theories coming out of your, of your, of your soul. Do you ever like catch yourself and go like, who am I? Uh, I'm saying all these things. Where did, where is this coming from? Or are you just going, wow, I'm pretty, uh,

Anna Emmanouil: No, I honestly, everyone has imposter syndrome. I think there's just varying degrees. I think that once you get more experience in something, you have less of it. And I certainly hear a lot of my incredibly intelligent colleagues speak with worry that they are imposters, even though they are doing their research and doing their homework. So I kind of have started to give it, I've given it less mind than I used to, and I start to follow the 80 20 rule. And I don't know if you know, this is probably very obvious, but you know, a hundred percent being perfection. There is this way to look at things that if you can do it to 80%, and I mean that from posting an Instagram post, what am I going to say? How should I start? Okay. Press play, get it to 80% perfectly right for you, not a hundred percent, and then post it. Um, get your research done best you can. You will never know everything. There is always imperfect information and you can only know what you can know up to about 80%, you'll never get it right. You're not a clairvoyant. You don't know the future, but you know what 80 20 rule. Did I get it 80% right? Go for it because you stand out of your own way. When you do that, the minute you're like, it has to be a hundred percent or I can't do it. You will never get to a hundred percent.

Jim Allan: As another guest of mine said, uh, it doesn't need to be perfect, right? And that's, that holds people back a lot. Oh my God. I screwed this one sentence up out of 50 sentences. I'll X the whole thing, but, uh, you know, fear is a big motivator. And so you can certainly over prepare, right? You can be really prepared, you know, when you're going to do an interview about a topic or when you're going to meet a client, I suppose.

Anna Emmanouil: Right. So, yeah. And you don't know what direction someone's going to take it. I always say you have to sit in the space completely in sync with the person you're talking to in the present moment, and you will then have to allow and trust yourself to find the information that, you know, to help answer the question that they might have, but if you're not, if you're trying to just come and spewed facts at them, you may as well not have that conversation because you're going to sound inauthentic and you are inauthentic because all you're thinking about is what you're supposed to say, and you're not being yourself, people want to work with people they can trust and they're not going to necessarily like people sitting down and talk to you, Jim, because they honestly, you create immediate trust with somebody. It's not, it's not like you're coming at them, you know, with a confrontational material, so you're easy to talk to when someone does say, yes, it's easy to be in this chair.

Jim Allan: I do have naughty questions and it's just, I say it in a nice way. And I said, I said that to you last time. Here's my mean question. That's what I said. Here's my mean question. Um, but you know what? There's good answers come out of that. Sometimes. So you're, you know, I mean, you're a woman in the business world. Um, and, and I mean, is it tough for women in business? And when I wrote that, I thought, there's a million women in real estate, so you're dealing with women all the time. It's just, I mean, it almost sounds crazy for me to say. Is it, is that even an issue for you anymore? Or is it an issue in the real life?

Anna Emmanouil: Yes, it's an issue. Uh, I would say where it's an issue is that if you are a woman that has many responsibilities, not every woman does, and that's okay, right? Not every woman is going to have children and a husband and like parents they have to take care of, or, you know, investment properties that they manage on the side. Like there's a lot of things people do apart from real estate sometimes. And, you know, also men do, obviously there's fathers and husbands and all that stuff too. I think what usually happens in the real estate world is, um, women are expected to be more of the caregiver role, even in real estate. And so there is a little bit of a sexism that still runs through.

Jim Allan: You mean you please take care of this problem?

Anna Emmanouil: Um, I, you know, there's been a few situations where there is an expectation that, um, you know, we'll go and women usually will say, well, let me go and make sure the house is clean before the, like we have cleaners. Go through, but then I'll go and I'll still vacuum. I have not heard one of my male counterparts tell me that they went to vacuum. And I don't know whether they do, they just don't say it or that it's actually just, right. Like I go through and I literally clean the house. That's not because I think it's because I'm a woman. I think I'm just doing it because I want the house to be cleaned, but I'm aware that there is a bit of a preconception there, um, around women's roles and men's roles. Now I have to say in real estate, there are incredibly, you have to be a pretty strong person to be in real estate if you're a full-time realtor. So most of the women are not wallflowers and no one is, you know, um, really shirking, you know, in the corner about being a female in the business, you would not be. But I think the thing about it is that you have to actually exist as a woman in the space and not try to be like some of the men, because there are many, many, many examples of men in real estate, the top realtors, many of them are men more than they are women. And they have a certain way of operating in the business that is maybe not, uh, something I want to emulate. So I do feel that I think the biggest thing in business that women are seeking is excellent mentorship. And that is lacking on a daily basis constantly, because even where I am, I have wonderful coworkers, but there isn't a mentor who's a woman who's a few years ahead of me that I can look at and say, how is she doing that part of her business? That's a great way. I'm going to copy that with her blessing and learn how to do something a little bit better. Um, because then, you know, there are, you could follow men and do the same thing, but what I'm saying is if you're talking about it from the perspective of women in business and wanting to have a mentor, there are very few.

Jim Allan: So are you looking forward to, I mean, this is the end of the year almost. So are you looking forward to 2023?

Anna Emmanouil: Wow. What a question, Jim. Uh, so if we were to take a temperature test,

Jim Allan: Is it going to be a good year. Is it going to be a good year?

Anna Emmanouil: So it can be a good year for, um, me if I am really buttoned down and talk to everyone that I believe might be able to use me and I can help them. Uh, what I would say is that the lottery of the beginning of this year, which is like, if you sold a home in January of this year, you were a lottery winner in 2022 and those lotteries don't come around very often. So we're not seeing the same intensity in the market that we saw this year. Um, I have quite great hopes for the upcoming year. I'm actually not as concerned as I thought I would be because I do see that there was a lot of buying, uh, there's a lot, there are a lot of buyers out there that are just waiting on the sidelines for things to settle down. And there are a lot of sellers just holding onto their home, waiting for something to get really clear with the bank of Canada in terms of interest rates and whatnot. Uh, and of course the economy is a whole other thing that I don't know exactly what will happen. But we're not seeing quite the big depths of despair that I think was anticipated. So I'm excited for next year. I I'm not as nervous as I was actually, I thought I'd be much more worried. I think sales volume overall for everybody will be down. Which means everyone will, that will hit everybody, but, um, I really do it because I love it. So as long as I make a certain amount that I can live on, I'm happy and I'm, I'm doing the thing I love to do.

Jim Allan: Well, thanks for coming again.

Anna Emmanouil: Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Jim Allan: Thank you. It's fun.